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Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#111

Post by eDISCO »

Interesting proposition. 1. Why would your process be more cost effective and/or efficient than the commercially available processes for alcohol production? Surely if the magic sauce is the nanotube alcohol/water separation then conventional alcohol sources from fermentation will start using it at some point and will be able to produce same fuel but cheaper and/or more efficient. Maybe you can show that [photosynthesis -> organic matter -> fermentation] is less efficient than your process using renewables as input?

2. Why use CO2 from Air? At 400ppm, there is 500 times less CO2 in air than in any powerplant exhaust, so using the same state of the art separation, for the same throughput, your equipment should be ~500 larger? That seems like a capex waste.

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#112

Post by Jackim »

I read in the Bloomberg article that the machine itself hasn't yet created "enough gasoline to power his Golf even a single mile". I assume you've already made enough to power an engine in the separate steps? How long before you think you'd be able to make a video taking gas from the machine and pouring it into a tank?

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#114

Post by scrape_it »

Very promising but I'm going to hold out until I actually see this being applied in places like South Korea, literally suffocating from a combination of both local and foreign smog from Korea's favorite neighbor.

You can't really fault me because we've often seen groundbreaking, extraordinary claims, and very little of it is actually realized. Sort of like how we get news about how somebody found a cure for AIDs or Cancer. Again, not trying to shit on anybody, just practicing good old skepticism, I will believe it when my nephews and nieces in Korea are able to breathe in cleaner air and can play outside without wearing industrial face masks. Until then, fingers crossed and hope this is the real deal.

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#115

Post by rmcginnis »

apo wrote: post #108

I'm skeptical, but fascinated by what you're doing. It sounds like all of the steps of your process are known, except: 1. CO2 fixation uses only electricity - no natural gas or other fossil fuels. It works at room temperature. 2. Distillation of the immediate products (alcohols) is not necessary. A carbon nanotube membrane solves the problem at room temperature through reverse osmosis. Correct? If so, then why target…

We could use the alcohols as fuels directly (in flex fuel vehicles), but this wouldn't address the much larger market for gasoline. It's a simple and inexpensive upgrade, so makes sense to do it. We will definitely take advantage of carbon credits, tax incentives, etc too!

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#116

Post by mikorym »

apo wrote: post #108

I'm skeptical, but fascinated by what you're doing. It sounds like all of the steps of your process are known, except: 1. CO2 fixation uses only electricity - no natural gas or other fossil fuels. It works at room temperature. 2. Distillation of the immediate products (alcohols) is not necessary. A carbon nanotube membrane solves the problem at room temperature through reverse osmosis. Correct? If so, then why target…

I think one has to look at this from a business minded point of view. One way of doing that is going for what could be an immense market.

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#117

Post by 34k5jo3i4toig »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #26
34k5jo3i4toig wrote: post #18

IMHO this is a waste of time. You are wasting clean energy sources to make dirty ones -- at best a 50-60% loss of energy. And you end up with dirty fuel, that further produces CO2, in which the cycle repeats, with a net loss. In the near future, cars and trucks will be electric. This is shuffling deckchairs on the titanic. Why not put 100% of your efforts into electric vehicles powered by 100% renewable sources?

To buy an electric car i need £20,000 which I don’t have. Even if I had the money or access to credit, I don’t have a parking space near my house, so I can’t charge the car. All fixable things, but will take tens of years. Let me use carbon neutral petrol

You have 20.5 years until Petrol cars are outlawed in the UK. Best get saving. Also -- this is no such thing is carbon neutral petrol.

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#118

Post by rmcginnis »

eDISCO wrote: post #111

Interesting proposition. 1. Why would your process be more cost effective and/or efficient than the commercially available processes for alcohol production? Surely if the magic sauce is the nanotube alcohol/water separation then conventional alcohol sources from fermentation will start using it at some point and will be able to produce same fuel but cheaper and/or more efficient. Maybe you can show that [photosynthes…

The cost of the agricultural feedstocks to biofuels are not easy to reduce further, whereas renewable electricity is getting less expensive and likely has much further to go. I think CO2 to fuel will have a decisive cost advantage over biofuels.

The reason to use direct air capture rather that going for higher concentration point sources is one of scale. We want to produce fuel at scales much larger than can be accommodated by any other means that capture from the air.

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#119

Post by jdnier »

rmcginnis wrote: post #13
Grustaf wrote: post #4

So you are competing with batteries? I suppose batteries have much higher roundtrip efficiency, but maybe there are other advantages to your technology, like being able to rely on combustion engine cars?

The main advantage of renewable gasoline over batteries is that we can decarbonize the existing vehicle fleet without replacing it. Also, the very high energy density of gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel will make sense for a long time in Jet aircraft, long haul trucks, and ocean container ships, for example.

> we can decarbonize the existing vehicle fleet without replacing it.

Put that way, it's a huge improvement and avoids having to electrify entire fleets first.

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