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'One Ring' Phone Scam

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Re: 'One Ring' Phone Scam

#111

Post by mschuster91 »

URSpider94 wrote: post #69
spectramax wrote: post #8

I feel like if FCC/Telephone providers don't fix this soon, traditional cell phones will become unreliable and we will need to adopt a new system or just use existing framework (facetime, whatsapp, etc.). If every cell phone has LTE and internet connection, why the fuck do we need traditional cell phone number? I never use it except for calling my pharmacy, customer support or restaurants/shops. All conversations wit…

On spam filtering: the public telephone network transmits almost zero data on a call - the only header is the originating number, which can be un-traceably spoofed at the originator. There is no embedded message data (that would be the call itself). So there’s literally no valid data to filter spam on, unless the spam caller is chivalrous enough to use their legit caller ID. I would also bet that there are regulation…

> the only header is the originating number, which can be un-traceably spoofed at the originator

That's wrong, phone signalling systems always specify the originating number and it cannot be spoofed. The key thing is that only 911 responders and similar lines have the CLIRIGN flag set on their lines which means that the spoofed number transmitted via CLIP is ignored and the real one used instead.

In addition victims of e.g. threat calls can have the MCID flag set on their line which makes the provider systems log all call information for later retrieval by police.

Re: 'One Ring' Phone Scam

#112

Post by martin_a »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #107
thefounder wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your phone for if not to answer when people call you?

To call other people? Calls I make are split ~50/50 between personal, to people who know me and have my number, and business, when I either want to buy something or resolve some issue. Calls I receive are split 40/60 between personal and spam. And I'm in Europe. In the US, from what I hear, that would be closer to 10/90. There's a huge asymmetry in phone use. Marketers and scammers make the phone network near-unusabl…

Where in Europe are you?

I'm in Germany and I'd say I get one call a month from somebody who wants to do a survey or something like that.

And I also might get one spam SMS per month which I report to the "Bundesnetzagentur", which will then take care of that as this is prohibited in Germany.

Re: 'One Ring' Phone Scam

#113

Post by apexalpha »

blihp wrote: post #110
nightcracker wrote: post #90

I'm from europe (the Netherlands). Everytime I see these american robocall threads it blows my mind. What about your system is so bad that allows this to go on? It's not a problem here at all.

Lobbying groups working on behalf of the telcos and related business interests that oppose any measures to deal with this, and most other, issues that someone is making money as a result of.

Surely telco's must know that this will drive everyone out of regular calls to VoiP services which will not benefit them in the long run.

Re: 'One Ring' Phone Scam

#114

Post by inflatableDodo »

thefounder wrote: post #95
shereadsthenews wrote: post #5

I can’t imagine why anyone ever answers the phone. I get at least ten robocalls every weekday. I don’t ever look at my voicemail and I haven’t answered a call in ages. Edit: I know I’m not alone because CNN just released a poll with no responses from people under the age of fifty, because they couldn’t reach enough of them by phone.

What's your phone for if not to answer when people call you?

This question reminds me of Kraftwerk's method of using a phone. I'd love a mobile phone that did this;

>When the German electronic band Kraftwerk were in the studio, they refused to be disturbed. Working for hours on end, patiently perfecting their sonic arrangements, required zero interruptions. So much so that they even took the ringer out of the only telephone in the studio. So what happened when someone wanted to call them? Simple. If someone wanted to speak to them when they were working in the studio, the band would instruct that person to call at a precise time - not 2 minutes before and not a couple of minutes after, but exactly at that time. Then, at that precise time, a member of the band would stop what they were doing, walk across the studio, pick up the none ringing phone and say ‘Hello’ and the call would begin. That’s the only way you could get to speak to them. You made an agreement. You said what you were going to do and then you did it.

http://www.youneedstandout.com/blog/2014/10/20/how-to-call-k...

Re: 'One Ring' Phone Scam

#115

Post by aptwebapps »

inflatableDodo wrote: post #114
thefounder wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your phone for if not to answer when people call you?

This question reminds me of Kraftwerk's method of using a phone. I'd love a mobile phone that did this; >When the German electronic band Kraftwerk were in the studio, they refused to be disturbed. Working for hours on end, patiently perfecting their sonic arrangements, required zero interruptions. So much so that they even took the ringer out of the only telephone in the studio. So what happened when someone wanted t…

This would only work in Germany.

Re: 'One Ring' Phone Scam

#116

Post by TeMPOraL »

martin_a wrote: post #112
TeMPOraL wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To call other people? Calls I make are split ~50/50 between personal, to people who know me and have my number, and business, when I either want to buy something or resolve some issue. Calls I receive are split 40/60 between personal and spam. And I'm in Europe. In the US, from what I hear, that would be closer to 10/90. There's a huge asymmetry in phone use. Marketers and scammers make the phone network near-unusabl…

Where in Europe are you? I'm in Germany and I'd say I get one call a month from somebody who wants to do a survey or something like that. And I also might get one spam SMS per month which I report to the "Bundesnetzagentur", which will then take care of that as this is prohibited in Germany.

Poland.

I regularly get a survey call and "congratulations, you won a vacuum cleaner/spa/whatever" call roughly once a month. From time to time, I get some company I'm technically in business with call me (through an outsourced call centre), trying to upsell something useless. I used to get a lot more of calls like these a couple years ago, but I vaguely recall something in the legislation having changed since then, and most spam calls disappeared.

That said, a year ago I started my own business, and now the cold calling just doesn't stop. In Poland AFAIK it's illegal to spam individuals, but it's legal to spam businesses - and now I have, for example, Polcard (card processor) representatives calling me roughly once a month, asking if maybe I'd like a POS terminal. I keep saying them, I'm a contractor, I only do B2B and don't need a terminal - they note this down, and call again the next month.

So currently it all adds up to ~10 +/- 5 unwanted calls a month. It's still usually more than personal calls I receive (but less than personal or business calls I make). Rise of the mobile-connected IMs pretty much put a stop to most personal phone calls among the people I know.

Re: 'One Ring' Phone Scam

#117

Post by alias_neo »

maccard wrote: post #109
gpm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I answer the phone because people who I have to be responsive to call it. I'm currently getting a visa, if someone involved in the decision making process calls my number I better answer it. I was interviewing for a job not that long ago, when people get back to me by the phone I better answer it. When my dentist or doctor calls to schedule an appointment I need to answer it. If a family member needs to get my attent…

I do t disagree with you that answerinf your phone can be necessary, but most of your examples are cases where you are expecting a call - except your doctor/dentist. Why are they calling you and not you calling them to make appointments? Semo-related but it's infuriating how many companies refuse to contact you by email. I'm currently remortgaging a flat, and I've told the broker repeatedly to contact me by email, an…

The broker thing has happened the same way with me, the last two times I've done so.

I'm starting to believe they don't want certain things in black and white so they would rather call you. It could just be policy though, who's to say.

I do still find it irritating that they insist. I'm much more likely to respond to an email quickly than to a phone call and I only answer phone calls from my family while I'm at work.

Re: 'One Ring' Phone Scam

#118

Post by bryanrasmussen »

maccard wrote: post #109
gpm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I answer the phone because people who I have to be responsive to call it. I'm currently getting a visa, if someone involved in the decision making process calls my number I better answer it. I was interviewing for a job not that long ago, when people get back to me by the phone I better answer it. When my dentist or doctor calls to schedule an appointment I need to answer it. If a family member needs to get my attent…

I do t disagree with you that answerinf your phone can be necessary, but most of your examples are cases where you are expecting a call - except your doctor/dentist. Why are they calling you and not you calling them to make appointments? Semo-related but it's infuriating how many companies refuse to contact you by email. I'm currently remortgaging a flat, and I've told the broker repeatedly to contact me by email, an…

I don't think you expect a call from immigration when they are handling your application, they just call if they want to ask you why line # doesn't look the way they expect it to.

Re: 'One Ring' Phone Scam

#119

Post by harryf »

This problem (and telemarketing in general) is incredibly easy to solve, especially if you are Google or Apple. In fact it's almost a disgrace that they don't.

Back in the day, did this with the apps for local.ch in Switzerland ( some fluffy details here: https://tel.local.ch/en/advertising-calls ) which something like 40-50% of the Swiss population have installed on their phones.

As a Yellow pages phonebook app we provided an "Incoming Call" lookup service against our search engine of Swiss business phone numbers, so we could see who you received calls from (data which we treated as strictly private).

These types of robocallers (and telemarketers in general) were really easy to spot in logs - you see a number that's been calling many different people but _wasn't_ in our official database of businesses (we had good coverage of all businesses in Switzerland), we'd flag it our users with "We don't know this number but we suspect telemarketing" leaving the user to decide whether they wanted to call back or not. The Google Places API or the Yelp API ( https://www.yelp.com/developers/documentation/v3/business_se... ) would probably suffice for the same purpose.

The only way to get round this is for robocallers to rotate the numbers they're using with a very high frequency so they don't "peak" in the logs but that can get expensive for them.

What's nice is this approach is also dynamic - you don't need an official database of blacklisted numbers. You just need a big enough sample of users with your app installed and you'll catch Robocallers as soon as they start peaking in any logs.

Apple and Google have way more insights into who's calling who than this (e.g. number of rings, email signatures, the users address books, which numbers have been blocked and a ton of analytics) which could be used to kill telemarketing for good. Given the solution is so simple, it really surprises me they don't.

Re: 'One Ring' Phone Scam

#120

Post by endorphone »

harryf wrote: post #119

This problem (and telemarketing in general) is incredibly easy to solve, especially if you are Google or Apple. In fact it's almost a disgrace that they don't. Back in the day, did this with the apps for local.ch in Switzerland ( some fluffy details here: https://tel.local.ch/en/advertising-calls ) which something like 40-50% of the Swiss population have installed on their phones. As a Yellow pages phonebook app we p…

This would be entirely predicated on callerid being trustworthy. But it isn’t. At all. Some scammers who have call lists based upon surreptitiously stolen contact lists now call people ‘from’ their own contacts.
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