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An Amateur Porno Set Off a Federal Witch Hunt

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Re: An Amateur Porno Set Off a Federal Witch Hunt

#61

Post by barry-cotter »

dragonwriter wrote: post #59
barry-cotter wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of the laws that our important to daily life are hundreds of years old. Any law that’s important gets used and enforced regularly. The incentives of the modern bureaucratic state mean that any law that is used regularly will eventually be superseded by a more specific law that covers the circumstances more specifically; that’s why there are laws for mail fraud, computer fraud,, wire fraud etc. instead of just…

> Any law that’s important gets used and enforced regularly The third amendment is an important law, but active enforcement is...rare. Even in criminal law, arguably, the ideal is that the existence of the law itself acts as a deterrent—an infrequently enforced law isn't necessarily unimportant, it may just be successful.

The third amendment forbids the US government from doing something it has no desire to do. Professional armies just aren’t quartered in civilian homes anymore. If they did want to do it they’d find some legal justification to do so. Wickard v. Filburn[1] shows that being contrary to a plain reading of the law is no real obstacle to the government trampling roughshod over the US constitution.

Active enforcement of important laws may occasionally be rare but if you can’t pass legislation to keep the constitution of your state in effect you probably have an incipient civil war on your hands, or incompetence at a level that makes the Brexit Tories look like Bismarck.

The overwhelming majority of important laws are enforced regularly. People don’t have to hunt for laws to get thieves, murderers or slavers[2], they’re enforced multiple times per year. Theft and murder have been illegal as long as there have been states, and slavery has been illegal in the US since, what, 1864?

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_slavery_in_the_Un...

Re: An Amateur Porno Set Off a Federal Witch Hunt

#64

Post by closeparen »

ohashi wrote: post #19

How unapologetic the prosecutor still is offends me. Trying to use anti fornication laws from 1796 and knowing it's a miscarriage of justice? Yet still thinks it's the right decision.

Social conservatism didn't disappear. It remains a political force and an electoral majority in some places. There's no reason to doubt that this kind of prosecution is exactly what the voters had in mind when they elected him.

Re: An Amateur Porno Set Off a Federal Witch Hunt

#67

Post by realityking »

roenxi wrote: post #47
bonzini wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some jurisdictions (especially civil law, I think) the DA has no discretion and must follow up on any accusation that could lead to criminal charges. There is no possibility for selective enforcement. This way the legislative branch has pressure to amend the criminal code as it becomes obsolete---in this case, imagine if people had started accusing others of fornication and private lewdness left and right, and DAs…

> There is no possibility for selective enforcement. There are huge holes in that. What if, hypothetically, the DA looks at a situation and says 'there is no chance of criminal charges', but some 40-60% of the population thinks there should be? There is even a fairly topical case of that where a substantial number of Democrat lawmakers are upset with how Barr is handling the Muller report. Imagine squaring a similar…

Note that this wide prosecutorial description is not universal among western countries (maybe it is a common law thing?)

Germany has compulsory prosecution (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_prosecution, the German article Google Translated has mich more detail) and it’s subject to review by the courts (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klageerzwingungsverfahren and https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ermittlungserzwingungsverfah...)

Note that as a result of this plea bargaining are a rare thing.

Re: An Amateur Porno Set Off a Federal Witch Hunt

#68

Post by craftinator »

ceejayoz wrote: post #51
craftinator wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws should have a given lifespawn, and be re-evaluted at the end of that lifespan for relevancy and effectiveness given the current culture. Too many laws remove freedom and power from the average citizen, and are actually dangerous if left un-audited. We have so many laws, you can't know them to follow them, thus making people criminals without knowledge of wrongdoing.

This process itself might be as dangerous as the one it replaces, though. I suspect things like civil rights, social security, Medicare, etc. would be difficult to renew in today's political climate despite public support for them. Look how hard it is to do stuff like raise the debt ceiling, which wasn't a partisan football until just a few years ago.

Good point! I can definitely see how expiring laws could be hugely manipulated. But still, I currently take issue with the number of laws currently in place, that I'm subject to, that I don't know exist. I think a smaller body of laws would be more manageable for law makers, easier to enforce, leave fewer gray areas to be manipulated in court rooms, etc... Look up the number of convictions for possession of a "gravity knife" in New York city. If you've been to New York, and possessed a pocket knife, you are likely guilty. It was recently amended after some 50 years of targetted abuse; how many other laws exist that obviously encroach on our individual freedoms?

Re: An Amateur Porno Set Off a Federal Witch Hunt

#69

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #21
ohashi wrote: post #19

How unapologetic the prosecutor still is offends me. Trying to use anti fornication laws from 1796 and knowing it's a miscarriage of justice? Yet still thinks it's the right decision.

The laws were on the books, and the public's opposition to what the movie-maker was doing seems to fit in with the intent and scope of the laws. Maybe you can blame him for selective enforcement, but I don't think that qualifies as a miscarriage of justice. (That is, of course, assuming we take at face value that his denial that he didn't steal and ship a copy of the movie to Oklahoma.) The prosecutor took measures t…

[deleted]

Re: An Amateur Porno Set Off a Federal Witch Hunt

#70

Post by reallydude »

kgwgk wrote: post #30
reallydude wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a commercial movie where the lead roles are played by professional actors, I'm not sure you've gotten anywhere, describing what professional means, when you make it dependent on other entities as an explanation. There are plenty of bad SAG actors. What about just saying "union production"? Although I think that's the minimal bar, there have been non-union successes...which don't look professional to me. eg https://…

Are you suggesting that films can be classified as either “union” or “amateur”? Star Wars is an amateur film then. And saying “amateur porno” is redundant.

> Star Wars is an amateur film then

Based on what? There are many unions and they have changed and stabilized over time. SAG-AFTRA https://www.sagaftra.org/about/our-history is the one that is distinguishing. The Director's Guild (which George Lucas and others, had spats with) or a writer's guild, etc have traditionally been little more than elitist extortion committees.

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