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My Husband Became a Poster Child of the Post-Antibiotic Era

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Re: My Husband Became a Poster Child of the Post-Antibiotic Era

#71

Post by bobowzki »

Stratoscope wrote: post #53
gumby wrote: post #15

One factor that will return once people start to panic is table manners, many of which seem fussy (separate saving utensils, a butter knife, not putting used utensils onto the table) but actually evolved for hygiene reasons. Sadly of course like any complex behavior it was also hijacked for sumptuary purposes (grape shears, egg spoons, not finishing your plate in some cultures) but I hold out a hope (probably in vail…

> One factor that will return once people start to panic is table manners, many of which seem fussy (separate serving utensils, a butter knife, not putting used utensils onto the table) but actually evolved for hygiene reasons. When I was a kid growing up in the late 1950s, I thought we had this problem solved. All the local restaurants kept a jar of mustard and a jar of mayonnaise on each table. (Yes, mayo sitting o…

I didn't expect that ending...

Re: My Husband Became a Poster Child of the Post-Antibiotic Era

#72

Post by mrob »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #59
ImprovedSilence wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having silverware actually made out of silver existed for sanitary reasons as well. Same reason to throw a silver dollar in your well.

Unfortunately, it's also a cause of metal poisoning. "Blue blood" was a term for upper class families with silverware who had silver poisoning because of it. My recollection: we don't know how to treat silver poisoning.

Silver is antimicrobial even at concentrations too low to be dangerous to humans. The same is true of copper.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligodynamic_effect

Re: My Husband Became a Poster Child of the Post-Antibiotic Era

#73

Post by NyashMyash »

I'm russian. And for me this article sounds completely idiotic - phage research was always ongoing in SU and literally everyone is aware of the alternative to antibiotics. At the moment there are lab networks available across all the modern russia where you may take a test and find a best phage to your bacterias. One of several mass-produced phages.

Moreover, if you dig into soviet medicine, you may find several awesome things. At the moment there are _two_ widely available st.aureus vaccines in russia. For those who work with farm animals. These vaccines may be used for both prevention and treatment. I've used them for myself to treat multiple-antibiotic resistant st.aureus infection and got rid of it.

The other interesting thing is a synhetic analogue of thymopoietin - an incredible immune stimulant which may in multiple cases help you to deal with an infection without antibiotics.

Unfortunately, russian doctors are idiots and russian medicine is almost dead and noone is interested in any stuff from there.

I, personally, regret that we didn't hear any news about epimerox - that only substance would solve 80% of our problems with bacterias, including multi-resistent ones.

Re: My Husband Became a Poster Child of the Post-Antibiotic Era

#75

Post by AllegedAlec »

whytaka wrote: post #58

It’s been a number of years now that I have become aware of MRSA and superbugs. The moment I read on this is also the moment I have come to be aware of phage therapy as a promising path of overcoming this new threat. This article yet again reports on the lack of awareness about bacteriophages in the medical community. I just can’t understand why it is like that. I, an idiot, have heard about it. How do people, who se…

> This article yet again reports on the lack of awareness about bacteriophages in the medical community.

A shortlist of answers:

- Bacteriophages are evolutionarily close to viruses. Their proteins will resemble viral proteins, so the body will most likely initiate an immune response against it.

- Bacteriophages are really quite specific in what they'll infect. This makes them much less useful as an antibacterial. You'd spend a lot of time and money on making one that would infect your mrsa strain, and mrsa would probably just start the arms race, leaving you back at the start.

- Bacteriophages are (evolutionarily close to) viruses, and thus also have the immense mutation rate of those. Even if you were to make one that had all the properties you wanted, it'd probably get rid of most of them because they are evolutionarily disadvantages.

- Probably a few other fairly good reasons which my coffee-deprived brain can't think off right at this moment.

Re: My Husband Became a Poster Child of the Post-Antibiotic Era

#76

Post by armada651 »

AllegedAlec wrote: post #75
whytaka wrote: post #58

It’s been a number of years now that I have become aware of MRSA and superbugs. The moment I read on this is also the moment I have come to be aware of phage therapy as a promising path of overcoming this new threat. This article yet again reports on the lack of awareness about bacteriophages in the medical community. I just can’t understand why it is like that. I, an idiot, have heard about it. How do people, who se…

> This article yet again reports on the lack of awareness about bacteriophages in the medical community. A shortlist of answers: - Bacteriophages are evolutionarily close to viruses. Their proteins will resemble viral proteins, so the body will most likely initiate an immune response against it. - Bacteriophages are really quite specific in what they'll infect. This makes them much less useful as an antibacterial. Yo…

> You'd spend a lot of time and money on making one that would infect your mrsa strain, and mrsa would probably just start the arms race, leaving you back at the start.

Actually developing resistance against bacteriophages requires such invasive changes that most bacteria that develop it lose resistance against anti-biotics. That is why an anti-biotic therapy is often used together with a phage therapy.

Re: My Husband Became a Poster Child of the Post-Antibiotic Era

#77

Post by AllegedAlec »

armada651 wrote: post #76
AllegedAlec wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This article yet again reports on the lack of awareness about bacteriophages in the medical community. A shortlist of answers: - Bacteriophages are evolutionarily close to viruses. Their proteins will resemble viral proteins, so the body will most likely initiate an immune response against it. - Bacteriophages are really quite specific in what they'll infect. This makes them much less useful as an antibacterial. Yo…

> You'd spend a lot of time and money on making one that would infect your mrsa strain, and mrsa would probably just start the arms race, leaving you back at the start. Actually developing resistance against bacteriophages requires such invasive changes that most bacteria that develop it lose resistance against anti-biotics. That is why an anti-biotic therapy is often used together with a phage therapy.

> Actually developing resistance against bacteriophages requires such invasive changes that most bacteria that develop it lose resistance against anti-biotics

It requires some huge changes, sure. However, MRSA exists because Staph was able to adapt to be resistant to multiple antibiotics at the same time. There is no reason to assume that it could not adapt to become resistant to the phage used as well as some of the most used antibiotics.

Re: My Husband Became a Poster Child of the Post-Antibiotic Era

#78

Post by DoreenMichele »

benj111 wrote: post #70
DoreenMichele wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having trouble figuring out how to reply to the way you are framing the problem space. There are several Einstein quotes along the lines of "A problem cannot be solved using the same thinking that created it." The problem of antibiotic resistance won't be solved with the same mindset that got us here. One thing contributing to the rise of antibiotic resistance is poor santitation in developing countries. Another…

"One thing contributing to the rise of antibiotic resistance is poor santitation in developing countries. Another is poverty." I assume this is why you were getting downvotes? I was going to too, but it does actually check out. https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/antibiotic-abuse-in-...

The very article we are discussing talks about a man getting an antibiotic resistant infection in Egypt, then being flown to Germany and eventually the US with the infection still unresolved. It terms it "Iraqibacter" and gives a brief origin of this class of microbes as starting in the Middle East and being exported to Europe and America.

So if that line you quoted is getting me downvotes, then everyone downvoting me has failed basic reading comprehension.

I have read other things that state more directly that we breed antibiotic resistant infections in less developed countries, no reading between the lines required.

But I have also read up on research into stunting. It has pertinent findings about lack of sanitation fostering low grade chronic infections that basically cause failure to thrive that isn't readily resolvable because the problem isn't rooted in the individual. It is rooted in the lack of sanitation of a larger area.

Sources:

The right gut microbes help infants grow

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/02/right-gut-microbes-he...

What causes stunting?

https://borgenproject.org/what-causes-stunting/

Beyond Malnutrition: The Role of Sanitation in Stunted Growth

https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.122-A298

Pertinent quotes from that last article:

In countries such as India, for instance, stunting occurs even among well-fed children, and that’s led investigators to consider other causes, especially poor sanitation and hygiene. Evidence shows that children who live without adequate sanitation, hygiene, and clean drinking water don’t grow as well as children who do.

In somewhat newer thinking, researchers are exploring the possibility that poor hygiene and a lack of sanitation induce a gut disorder called environmental enteropathy (EE) that diverts energy from growth toward an ongoing fight against subclinical infection.

Re: My Husband Became a Poster Child of the Post-Antibiotic Era

#79

Post by DoreenMichele »

autokad wrote: post #62
DoreenMichele wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it's also a cause of metal poisoning. "Blue blood" was a term for upper class families with silverware who had silver poisoning because of it. My recollection: we don't know how to treat silver poisoning.

its my understanding that "Blue blood" comes from the fact that most of them were pale and you can really see their blue veins, not that they were all poisoned by their silverware. its my understanding that silverware is very safe, and getting silver poisoning from eating off it is extremely unlikely. they'd have to be eating their silverware to notice any difference

The term “blue blood” came to be associated with the aristocracy simply because it was not uncommon in earlier times for European nobility to have skin that appeared to have a blue cast. The bluish (or sometimes greenish) discoloration of their skin was often caused by a condition known as Argyria.

Argyria it the result of ingested silver particles that are not able to pass through the body. Historically, this was caused by particles from silver eating utensils being swallowed along with food or silver being taken for medicinal purposes. Aristocrats were originally the ones who could afford medicine and who enjoyed the daily privilege of eating off of silver plates, drinking from silver vessels, and, as the saying goes, being born with “a silver spoon in their mouth.” Thus, Argyria was a condition that was more common among the upper class.

http://www.sensationalcolor.com/color-meaning/color-words-ph...

Re: My Husband Became a Poster Child of the Post-Antibiotic Era

#80

Post by DoreenMichele »

mrob wrote: post #72
DoreenMichele wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it's also a cause of metal poisoning. "Blue blood" was a term for upper class families with silverware who had silver poisoning because of it. My recollection: we don't know how to treat silver poisoning.

Silver is antimicrobial even at concentrations too low to be dangerous to humans. The same is true of copper. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligodynamic_effect

Yes, both silver and copper are antimicrobial. As far as I know, silver has zero nutritional value. Copper is a micronutrient useful to humans.

If you want antimicrobial metal kitchenware, copper makes more sense than silver, though it should still not be overused.

Additionally, copper surfaces in hospitals have a proven track record of helping to kill infection and reduce the transmission of hospital acquired infections.

If you can afford it (as it isn't cheap) and want to Prep for a post antibiotic world, copper fixtures of various sorts in your home would not be a bad idea.

https://www.the-hospitalist.org/hospitalist/article/125654/p...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4561453/

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