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People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

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Re: People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

#31

Post by drenvuk »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #14

Anger is such an interesting experience in that (if this study is correct) we tend to actually lose agency while angry, but internally I think we actually believe we have dramatically increased agency in the moment. That's part of what makes anger so dangerous. We're basically at maximum stupid while angry. Do you ever get angry and suddenly feel a loss for words? Difficulty articulating arguments? Resorting to less…

Anger is extremely useful - as are all other emotions. They are all motivators, impetus, etc. They get you going in a general direction which in many cases the outcome is what you desired when the impulse first hit you but it's only a general direction, there's always path to sate the desires that bubble up with minimal damage to things you care about.

Your emotions will always serve a purpose, you just have to control them and think about what you really want.

Re: People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

#32

Post by pistachiopro »

gerbilly wrote: post #4
bellerose wrote: post #2

You never have "real" control over your own actions because free will is an illusion. Thus, my emotional state tends to rarely get angry compared to when I thought free will was a possibility. Since understanding there isn't any control over anything makes me realize what can a person reasonably blame others or themselves if nobody has any choice over how they came to be or act. I don't necessarily gain control but I…

> You never have "real" control over your own actions because free will is an illusion. This is facile, and you certainly haven't proven the absence of free will just bey stating it here. I believe the best assumption, since we feel as though e have free will, is to behave as though we and other people (and animals) have free will. But aside from that, the fine article isn't really saying anything new. It's a known t…

There are some interesting arguments that we'd be better off not assuming free will. Yuval Noah Harari (of Sapiens fame) talks about it quite a bit. He mentions his stance briefly in this interview https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/aug/05/yuval-noah-h... , but he goes into it deeper in his books. One of his main points is that, as neuroscience and AI get better, external actors to you are able to "understand you better than you understand yourself" and basically start to program you. People are already concerned that this is happening to some degree (the Cambridge Analytica scandal, for example), and it's likely to get more and more severe as technology improves. And one of his big points is that the people who believe most in the sovereignty of their own will will be least likely to protect themselves from such outside influences.

Re: People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

#33

Post by baybal2 »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #14

Anger is such an interesting experience in that (if this study is correct) we tend to actually lose agency while angry, but internally I think we actually believe we have dramatically increased agency in the moment. That's part of what makes anger so dangerous. We're basically at maximum stupid while angry. Do you ever get angry and suddenly feel a loss for words? Difficulty articulating arguments? Resorting to less…

In my life, I've suffered 3 robbery attempts, and been stabbed twice. Two times before I turned 17, while I was still living in Russia :-\

I was vehemently opposed to my father's attempts to make me carry a weapon since I was 14. I changed my mind after being stabbed for a second time, much more badly (and that happened the same year.)

First time, I was attacked by a gang of homeless orphaned children. It was like that: I just noticed them giving off some creepy sense of malice in their looks as I passed them on the street, and the very moment they left my field of vision I hear loud "knock" "knock" and feel being pushed from behind.

Somehow, I sent few of them flying within mere split seconds, despite never being into combat sports, nor being strong for my age. The next thing I remember was me running like I never ran before in my life.

The second time it happened, it was almost like in a movie. Being descended upon by 3 or possibly 4 huge dudes, all looking like "how proper gangsters look." I only remember them appearing out of the blue, being taken into chokehold from behind. But that time, I had a 40cm electrician screwdriver with me...

Whatever happened next, I will not speak until my deathbed, but that day my anger very likely saved me my life.

After my recovery (still from first attack, I was not injured in the second,) and finishing school exams, I applied for a student exchange programme in Singapore, and finally got the fuck out of that country at last.

I still thank god for making anger be. Anger and fury can some times be almost beautiful, turning ecstatic.

Re: People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

#34

Post by itronitron »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #14

Anger is such an interesting experience in that (if this study is correct) we tend to actually lose agency while angry, but internally I think we actually believe we have dramatically increased agency in the moment. That's part of what makes anger so dangerous. We're basically at maximum stupid while angry. Do you ever get angry and suddenly feel a loss for words? Difficulty articulating arguments? Resorting to less…

Having the ability, and confidence, to dispassionately have discussions and ask questions while experiencing anger (or fear) is a very empowering life skill, and it takes practice.

Re: People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

#35

Post by mirimir »

isoskeles wrote: post #27
mirimir wrote: post #19

From William S. Burroughs' Naked Lunch : > I am never here …. Never that is fully in possession, but somehow in a position to forestall ill-advised moves…. Patrolling is, in fact, my principal occupation….. No matter how tight Security, I am always somewhere Outside giving orders and Inside this strait jacket of jelly that gives and stretches but always reforms ahead of every movement, thought, impulse, stamped with…

I wonder what reduced William S. Burroughs' sense of control over his actions that one time when he accidentally murdered his wife.

Alcohol, probably. Maybe also/or heroin. And he'd just returned from South America, where he'd been chasing (unsuccessfully, I've read) some young guy. And where he did, I gather, ayahuasca, maybe a few times. So he was probably crazier than usual.

But anyway, it was indeed horrible that he shot his wife. But for whatever it's worth, it was a formative event in his career as a writer. As I recall, he credited it as the formative event in his career.

And to your point, it was arguably one of the things that he had in mind when writing that.

Re: People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

#36

Post by qwerty456127 »

Is it just sense of control or actual control reduced? E.g. I generally am very mindful, calm and kind person but I can remember a couple of times in my life when I was driven so mad (e.g. when guys were bullying me at school I could go "berserk" and attack) or so scared (e.g. I once walked a bad city district at night alone and 2 zombies approached, kind of junkies perhaps, looked like real ghouls, so I ran away) that I was acting unconsciously and impulsively. From the consciousness point of view it felt like it was turned off and I wasn't in control any more, like in a non-lucid dream.

Re: People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

#38

Post by btrettel »

I'm a cyclist. This study might explain the sheer number of drivers who tell me that they passed me dangerously because I gave them "no choice".

When stopped at stoplights, I've told some of these drivers that they always can choose to wait until a safe time to pass, but many drivers scoff at this as if it's not a realistic option. Perhaps 95% of the time when I'm riding a driver wouldn't have to wait more than 30 seconds. (Maybe longer for other cyclists since I try to minimize this.) The fact that I so frequently catch up with these drivers at stop lights should be a clue to them that I often do not slow them down (i.e., stoplights are the bottleneck), but in my experience mentioning that tends to make an already angry driver angrier.

So far I don't think I've made much progress convincing dangerous drivers to drive better by talking to them, but I now have a much better understanding of their concerns.

Re: People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

#39

Post by gerbilly »

pistachiopro wrote: post #32
gerbilly wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You never have "real" control over your own actions because free will is an illusion. This is facile, and you certainly haven't proven the absence of free will just bey stating it here. I believe the best assumption, since we feel as though e have free will, is to behave as though we and other people (and animals) have free will. But aside from that, the fine article isn't really saying anything new. It's a known t…

There are some interesting arguments that we'd be better off not assuming free will. Yuval Noah Harari (of Sapiens fame) talks about it quite a bit. He mentions his stance briefly in this interview https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/aug/05/yuval-noah-h... , but he goes into it deeper in his books. One of his main points is that, as neuroscience and AI get better, external actors to you are able to "understand y…

The reason I think we should assume we have free will is a moral one.

If you believe you don't have free will, it can be easy to excuse all sorts of behaviour, because it was 'predetermined ' anyway.

Sort of like, stealing candy bars from a store then saying, I don't have free will, what can I do? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

#40

Post by bitcuration »

It's about energy. Anger and fear boost energy temporarily, probably evolved for survival. That's all there is to it, something to do with motivation. For example, when in anger you won't procrastinate which otherwise would be almost impossible to beat.
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