Japan is supposedly having a wave of popularity written by elderly featuring older protagonists with the target audience being older generations.
You Are Old, Father William
41–50 of 54 posts
Re: You Are Old, Father William
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
I thought about the same thing when I read that part. The formula "exception proves the rule" is generally misused (people not knowing that it's based on the archaic usage of prove which was "to test") in daily usage but this author, who is listed as a contributing editor for The Englewood Review of Books, making this mistake seems less likely. Interestingly, Wikipedia has an in-depth article on the usage of this phr…
It's not "generally misused", it has acquired another and now more common usage. Anyone with a strong command of the English language would know that usage and would know that the original usage now reads as incorrect to most people, so it's either an accident or a deliberate miscommunication to use it.
So, what is the new, more common meaning? That exception to the rule somehow strengthens the rule?
Re: You Are Old, Father William
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not "generally misused", it has acquired another and now more common usage. Anyone with a strong command of the English language would know that usage and would know that the original usage now reads as incorrect to most people, so it's either an accident or a deliberate miscommunication to use it.
So, what is the new, more common meaning? That exception to the rule somehow strengthens the rule?
> So, what is the new, more common meaning? That exception to the rule somehow strengthens the rule?
Yes. And the fact this meaning is meaningless, or at least a very dishonest tactic, doesn't really change the fact it's now the most common meaning.
Pragmatically, the lesson here is that "the exception that proves the rule" is a bad phrase to use unless you're deliberately trying to confuse or derail the discussion.
Re: You Are Old, Father William
#44I mean, _fine_, but Boomers did ruin everything.
Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
Re: You Are Old, Father William
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your comment is a hasty generalization combined with a red herring. As is the article. In my opinion, of course. That was sort of my point.
Where does the article engage in hasty generalization?
Well, the whole article reads like a hasty generalisation to me, but in an effort to avoid being trite . . . The author's generalisation is that society (i.e. everyone) doesn't respect authors over 70 and characters over 70 (and by extension, people over 70). Yet, he goes on to give examples of celebrated authors over 70 and celebrated stories where the main characters are over 70, leaving his argument where, exactly?
I've no doubt that some "young" people disrespect "old" people simply because they are "old." By the same token, some "old" people disrespect "young" people simply because they are "young." This is nuts. Respect people who are worthy of respect regardless of age (conversely, sadly, many people don't do much worthy of respect, again regardless of age). Back to my original comment: can we just stop with this kind of generational pot shots?
Re: You Are Old, Father William
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, what is the new, more common meaning? That exception to the rule somehow strengthens the rule?
> So, what is the new, more common meaning? That exception to the rule somehow strengthens the rule? Yes. And the fact this meaning is meaningless, or at least a very dishonest tactic, doesn't really change the fact it's now the most common meaning. Pragmatically, the lesson here is that "the exception that proves the rule" is a bad phrase to use unless you're deliberately trying to confuse or derail the discussion.
It's not meaningless, it's precisely how it was/is used in law, e.g. see https://english.stackexchange.com/a/14213, also see the Snopes answer: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/exceptional-proof/.
Two other idiomatic expressions that have similar confused usage are "proof is in the pudding" and "begs the question" (https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/246664/why-can-i...)
Re: You Are Old, Father William
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So, what is the new, more common meaning? That exception to the rule somehow strengthens the rule? Yes. And the fact this meaning is meaningless, or at least a very dishonest tactic, doesn't really change the fact it's now the most common meaning. Pragmatically, the lesson here is that "the exception that proves the rule" is a bad phrase to use unless you're deliberately trying to confuse or derail the discussion.
It's not meaningless, it's precisely how it was/is used in law, e.g. see https://english.stackexchange.com/a/14213 , also see the Snopes answer: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/exceptional-proof/ . Two other idiomatic expressions that have similar confused usage are "proof is in the pudding" and "begs the question" ( https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/246664/why-can-i... )
> It's not meaningless, it's precisely how it was/is used in law
I mean the current common meaning is meaningless; to wit: "Exceptions to the rule I just propounded make the rule stronger, as opposed to disproving it."
> Two other idiomatic expressions that have similar confused usage are "proof is in the pudding" and "begs the question"
The first is misquoted ("The proof of the pudding is in the eating" is immediately obvious) and the second is a horrible translation which would have gotten a failing grade in any school which taught Latin and which should be forgotten.
Re: You Are Old, Father William
#48My primary critique of this article is that it sets up a strawman in the first sentence to tear down. > Everyone who writes about aging “Boomers”—how “they” have ruined “our” society, and so on, ad nauseum—should be required to memorize Lewis Carroll’s “You Are Old, Father William” (from Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland) and recite it aloud before an audience of men and women age seventy or older. There are proper ar…
Yeh, I'm one of those boomers. It was our generation who cooked up the whole "taxation is theft" trope. That has made a terrible mess. We were born before the invention (1959-1960) of pharma birth control, and were teenagers when it took hold in society. It was the biggest change in human history (I'm not exaggerating). We, generalizing, did an awful job of starting to sort out the moral / ethical / social changes bi…
We also lowered the voting age to 18.
Re: You Are Old, Father William
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where does the article engage in hasty generalization?
Well, the whole article reads like a hasty generalisation to me, but in an effort to avoid being trite . . . The author's generalisation is that society (i.e. everyone) doesn't respect authors over 70 and characters over 70 (and by extension, people over 70). Yet, he goes on to give examples of celebrated authors over 70 and celebrated stories where the main characters are over 70, leaving his argument where, exactly…
> The author's generalisation is that society (i.e. everyone) doesn't respect authors over 70
Nowhere does the author say that. Your whole comment is a strawman.
Re: You Are Old, Father William
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
If they've been writing for decades they aren't 'hot new writers' over 70.
The emphasis is not on the "new" but on the "hot new". You can hone your skills for decades, and even publish, but only become "hot" (based on some nicely selling or award winning work) later in life. You still deserve to be in a list.
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