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U.S. Accuses China of Detaining Up to 3M Muslims in 'Concentration Camps'

forbes.com

11–20 of 75 posts

Re: U.S. Accuses China of Detaining Up to 3M Muslims in 'Concentration Camps'

#11

I actually find the evolution of this blatant, shameless propaganda amusing. You could actually observe, in real-time, the ramping up of accusations and headline hysterics in sequence: 1. 50k muslims detained 2. 100k muslims detained and put into re-education camps 3. 500k muslims arrested and put into concentration camps! 4. One million muslims torn out of homes and put into concentration camps and getting their org…

Weird, maybe the number of Uighur people that have been remanded to these camps has increased over time.

Meanwhile, I don't get the sense that you want to discuss this in good faith, so I'll just end things here, but first I want to add that people who want to learn more about the Xinjiang internment camps should listen to this highly informative podcast: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/uncovering-china-s-sec...

Re: U.S. Accuses China of Detaining Up to 3M Muslims in 'Concentration Camps'

#12

I actually find the evolution of this blatant, shameless propaganda amusing. You could actually observe, in real-time, the ramping up of accusations and headline hysterics in sequence: 1. 50k muslims detained 2. 100k muslims detained and put into re-education camps 3. 500k muslims arrested and put into concentration camps! 4. One million muslims torn out of homes and put into concentration camps and getting their org…

The CCP (Chinese Communist Pary) is locking up people due to their ethnicity and/or beliefs.

Inside the concentration camps, they are attempting to indoctrinate the people into CCP dogma, and away from their traditional beliefs. They are also using them for slave labor.

Outside the camps, the CCP has installed suffocating surveilance systems to watch every action. They also have placed people into apartment blocks to watch their neighbors, installing card readers in the homes of people being watched that the watchers must swipe a card in to prove that they're being diligent.

The only hysteria I see is in your post.

Re: U.S. Accuses China of Detaining Up to 3M Muslims in 'Concentration Camps'

#13

I actually find the evolution of this blatant, shameless propaganda amusing. You could actually observe, in real-time, the ramping up of accusations and headline hysterics in sequence: 1. 50k muslims detained 2. 100k muslims detained and put into re-education camps 3. 500k muslims arrested and put into concentration camps! 4. One million muslims torn out of homes and put into concentration camps and getting their org…

It seems a lot of your recent comment history is defensive of the status quo in China. I'd be curious to know your background. Do you live there?

Re: U.S. Accuses China of Detaining Up to 3M Muslims in 'Concentration Camps'

#15
Another scaremongering article from this author again. This author's company directly competes with surveillance and security companies from China.

Official number is 13k [1], but people think those jaw dropping estimations from religious groups are more believable.

[1] https://www.apnews.com/0e3b005d281345278ed470823096ec9b

Re: U.S. Accuses China of Detaining Up to 3M Muslims in 'Concentration Camps'

#16
post #14

[flagged]

> I will not associate with any business or person who is Chinese.

I agree it's not right and everyone outside of China from governments all the way down to consumers ought to be doing more but I think we need to be careful with statements like the one above. The Chinese government is committing atrocities. Some Chinese citizens and companies are surely complicit but I don't think it's fair to judge an entire nationality based on the actions of those in power. I'm certain there are quite a lot of Chinese who disagree with what's happening but understandably cannot voice their opinion on the matter.

Re: U.S. Accuses China of Detaining Up to 3M Muslims in 'Concentration Camps'

#17

I actually find the evolution of this blatant, shameless propaganda amusing. You could actually observe, in real-time, the ramping up of accusations and headline hysterics in sequence: 1. 50k muslims detained 2. 100k muslims detained and put into re-education camps 3. 500k muslims arrested and put into concentration camps! 4. One million muslims torn out of homes and put into concentration camps and getting their org…

The CCP (Chinese Communist Pary) is locking up people due to their ethnicity and/or beliefs. Inside the concentration camps, they are attempting to indoctrinate the people into CCP dogma, and away from their traditional beliefs. They are also using them for slave labor. Outside the camps, the CCP has installed suffocating surveilance systems to watch every action. They also have placed people into apartment blocks to…

It's important to understand the context for such actions. Right or wrong, heavy handed or not, there is always a context. On HN and other social media, users always seem to think there is some kind of inherent malice and genocidal intent in every Chinese action, which is utterly absurd.

In this particular situation, the context was 200 Han Chinese being ethnically cleansed in Xinjiang, dragged out of buses and cars and executed on the street while coming home from work, with 2000 more injured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_rio...

There are videos of this readily available.

It'd be like if hundreds of white people were butchered by thousands of anonymous black people for the sole reason of being white in Detroit. What would be the appropriate government response to such an event? Mass incarceration? I mean, in such a context, can "re-education" camps not be viewed as a relatively mild response? This is not to say that it's an ideal response, but certainly it's not the worst an authoritative government could have done.

In response to your point about surveillance, the Urumqi riots began because a false rumour about the rape of two Uighur women in a Han Chinese factory spread on WeChat, fuelling hate, outrage and unrest. Because this is how things work in an uneducated population. Just look up the number of lynchings, burnings and stonings in rural Indian villages based off of false rumours spread on social media.

This is not the same country as your country, these are not the same people as your people. China is a developing nation with an uneducated but heavily interconnected population, a combination heavily conducive to destabilization from both internal and external actors. For this reason, their government will not hesitate to stamp out, censor, surveil whatever it is they need to in order to preserve stability. You can't judge China by the same standards as modern, highly educated western democracies - any attempt to do so is simply naive and misguided.

Re: U.S. Accuses China of Detaining Up to 3M Muslims in 'Concentration Camps'

#18

Meanwhile, the US military is planning how to deal with so-called "terrorists," many of whom were peasants sold to warlords to collect bounties, to die of old-age in Gitmo. Also, ripping children from their parents in migrant and asylum-seekers concentration camps. Pot, meet kettle.

While I agree both of those things are repulsive - the scales do not match up. There are 3 million people in camps in china, vs about 1000 at the height of gitmo. The border camps come a little closer in raw numbers - somewhere around 0.5 millions people per year, but they are detained for short periods of time. Estimates vary but we’re talking a few days. Scale matters. Don’t try to downplay how completely fucked up…

> There are 3 million people in camps in china

That's what the US government claims, as such I'd take that number with a massive grain of salt because they have a vested interest in making China out as the "worse baddie" just like with surveillance, to make itself look like "the good guys" or at least "not as bad as China guys".

> vs about 1000 at the height of gitmo

That's quite a dishonest claim because Gitmo is only ONE out of many prisons like that, it ended up getting most of the spotlight due to geographical proximity to the US. But that doesn't mean that Gitmo was, or is, the only place like that, far from it [0].

And that doesn't even account for the thousands of drone victims, all just deemed "combatants" on the virtue of being "able-bodied" and too close to the "splash" [1].

With targets selected trough quite questionable methods [2].

In that context, China can't even compare to the US if China tried to. If you want to evade becoming a victim of these Chinese methods there's a very simple solution: Don't go to China.

The same doesn't work if you end up on the crosshairs of the US, as the US is applying these methods on a global basis through the most sophisticated global surveillance network in human history.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_prison_abuse_scandals

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-o...

[2] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/02/the-n...

Re: U.S. Accuses China of Detaining Up to 3M Muslims in 'Concentration Camps'

#19
post #15

Another scaremongering article from this author again. This author's company directly competes with surveillance and security companies from China. Official number is 13k [1], but people think those jaw dropping estimations from religious groups are more believable. [1] https://www.apnews.com/0e3b005d281345278ed470823096ec9b

If you don't like the author. Ignore him. Here's a quote from the US Secretary of State:

"We watch the massive human rights violations in Xinjiang where over a million people are being held in a humanitarian crisis that is the scale of what took place in the 1930s. And we see American businesses and their technology being used to help facilitate that activity from the Chinese government. It’s something worthy of thinking about."

Re: U.S. Accuses China of Detaining Up to 3M Muslims in 'Concentration Camps'

#20

I actually find the evolution of this blatant, shameless propaganda amusing. You could actually observe, in real-time, the ramping up of accusations and headline hysterics in sequence: 1. 50k muslims detained 2. 100k muslims detained and put into re-education camps 3. 500k muslims arrested and put into concentration camps! 4. One million muslims torn out of homes and put into concentration camps and getting their org…

It seems a lot of your recent comment history is defensive of the status quo in China. I'd be curious to know your background. Do you live there?

I am not defensive of the status quo in China. I'm simply presenting an alternative viewpoint to the recent, ongoing anti-China media/social-media blitz campaign.

Sorry, but I will not provide more information about myself than I have to. It doesn't matter anyhow since I will be accused of being a CCP shill 50c poster anyway.

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