EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants • Hacker News Board

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#21

Post by temp-dude-87844 » Fri, May 03, 2019, 9:23 PM UTC

wazoox wrote: post #19

EU officials don't understand the current trade war. The US keeps coercing EU companies, buying them out by force (Alstom), pushing them out of markets (Iran), using extortion against EU banks, generally pressuring the EU in the position of an obedient vassal; but the EU doesn't get it, at all. That's a tragedy (for us Europeans). Eu officials are completely bought into the free market ideology and "gentle commerce".…

A lot of core EU policies are based the neoliberal "gentle free markets" model of the world, like the rules to privatize infrastructure, transport, and telecom. They're largely to allow an EU-wide market where protectionism applies at the level of the entire bloc and not at the level of individual countries, but they are easily taken advantage in an asymmetric setting. It's not unlike how US companies go into China to show growth, yet complain about the coercion and theft of their IP, as if these happenings weren't an open secret.

The US takes advantage of EU's tech landscape being worse paid, more regulated, and less nimble, and takes advantage of the difficulties of policing the interaction between users and Internet-delivered services.

China takes advantage of the naivete of the EU and the greed of the US. Other players, like Russia, UAE, and Qatar play a similar game, but unlike China they don't use hardware and software, but stick to property ownership and influencing hearts and minds.

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#22

Post by sadris » Fri, May 03, 2019, 9:28 PM UTC

ahartmetz wrote: post #7

panpanna wrote: post #3

"The European Union has been in the forefront of efforts to tighten control on how social media companies handle the personal data of consumers" Yeah, that's why.

That is really total rubbish. How could 1-2 year old regulations go back 30+ years to stifle the European "tech scene"? By the way, there is other technology than that which is used to sell advertising on the internet.

European hostility to business rights in general is a much larger elephant in the room.

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#23

Post by JeremyBanks » Fri, May 03, 2019, 9:43 PM UTC

outlace wrote: post #17

mtgx wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if the EU adopted China's model of tricking U.S. giants to come there for the "huge market," then steal/coerce giving away their tech to the local small companies that can become billion-dollar giants a few years later, and then kicking the big U.S. companies out of the country or making it almost impossible for them to compete locally would've been a better strategy for the EU, too. Instead, the EU has allowed…

But it also seems that the US produces new big tech companies in new sectors whereas Europe appears not to. Sure maybe there aren’t any viable Google or Facebook competitors, but the US produces Stripe, Airbnb, uber, etc.

Those examples seem to highlight America's weaknesses, not strength. Uber and Airbnb are both mostly-criminal enterprises that could only succeed at the level they did because of corrupt or impotent law enforcement and legislators, and Stripe's success is facilitated by the inaccessible mess of America's underlying banking system.

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#24

Post by askafriend » Fri, May 03, 2019, 9:50 PM UTC

JeremyBanks wrote: post #23

outlace wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it also seems that the US produces new big tech companies in new sectors whereas Europe appears not to. Sure maybe there aren’t any viable Google or Facebook competitors, but the US produces Stripe, Airbnb, uber, etc.

Those examples seem to highlight America's weaknesses, not strength. Uber and Airbnb are both mostly-criminal enterprises that could only succeed at the level they did because of corrupt or impotent law enforcement and legislators, and Stripe's success is facilitated by the inaccessible mess of America's underlying banking system.

I'm sorry but Taxis were a criminally poor, inefficient, and dangerous product before Uber came along. I'd like to see you argue in favor of Taxis, because there really aren't many good arguments or excuses for how they operated and really just squandered their own opportunity.

Uber is better on literally every single dimension.

Stripe is an international company that's facilitated by the internet.

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#25

Post by JeremyBanks » Fri, May 03, 2019, 9:52 PM UTC

askafriend wrote: post #24

JeremyBanks wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those examples seem to highlight America's weaknesses, not strength. Uber and Airbnb are both mostly-criminal enterprises that could only succeed at the level they did because of corrupt or impotent law enforcement and legislators, and Stripe's success is facilitated by the inaccessible mess of America's underlying banking system.

I'm sorry but Taxis were a criminally poor, inefficient, and dangerous product before Uber came along. I'd like to see you argue in favor of Taxis, because there really aren't many good arguments or excuses for how they operated and really just squandered their own opportunity. Uber is better on literally every single dimension. Stripe is an international company that's facilitated by the internet.

Yes, America's existing taxi system was also awful. The fact that the only way to improve upon the situation required a series of criminal conspiracies and attempts to obstruct justice that were never properly punished reflects very poorly on the country.

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#26

Post by wazoox » Fri, May 03, 2019, 10:00 PM UTC

temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #21

wazoox wrote: post #19

EU officials don't understand the current trade war. The US keeps coercing EU companies, buying them out by force (Alstom), pushing them out of markets (Iran), using extortion against EU banks, generally pressuring the EU in the position of an obedient vassal; but the EU doesn't get it, at all. That's a tragedy (for us Europeans). Eu officials are completely bought into the free market ideology and "gentle commerce".…

A lot of core EU policies are based the neoliberal "gentle free markets" model of the world, like the rules to privatize infrastructure, transport, and telecom. They're largely to allow an EU-wide market where protectionism applies at the level of the entire bloc and not at the level of individual countries, but they are easily taken advantage in an asymmetric setting. It's not unlike how US companies go into China t…

Except that no protectionism at all happens at the EU level, because officials are completely clueless. Or bought-out, I don't really know. that's my point when I say that they're useless, toothless really.

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#27

Post by m0zg » Fri, May 03, 2019, 10:00 PM UTC

Mirioron wrote: post #4

Maybe the EU and European countries could've fostered an environment where tech companies could've been successful as well?

Venture capital and socialism (+overgrown, multi-level bureaucracies in the EU's case) can't really coexist. Nor can $200K+ US salaries coexist with $70K EU salaries for software engineers. So I wish Tusk good luck dealing with this one.

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#28

Post by askafriend » Fri, May 03, 2019, 10:40 PM UTC

JeremyBanks wrote: post #25

askafriend wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but Taxis were a criminally poor, inefficient, and dangerous product before Uber came along. I'd like to see you argue in favor of Taxis, because there really aren't many good arguments or excuses for how they operated and really just squandered their own opportunity. Uber is better on literally every single dimension. Stripe is an international company that's facilitated by the internet.

Yes, America's existing taxi system was also awful. The fact that the only way to improve upon the situation required a series of criminal conspiracies and attempts to obstruct justice that were never properly punished reflects very poorly on the country.

You're aware of the Taxi lobby and borderline criminal interests and practices surrounding Taxi medallions right?

Not to mention that if you were black or lived in under-resourced areas, good luck getting a Taxi to stop for you or go where you need to go.

> The fact that the only way to improve upon the situation required a series of criminal conspiracies and attempts to obstruct justice that were never properly punished reflects very poorly on the country.

Isn't this an ironic statement given the actual history of how America was founded?

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#29

Post by andreilys » Fri, May 03, 2019, 10:44 PM UTC

A similar case can be made for Chinese tech companies, many of whom are actively complicit in human rights violations [1] [2].

Yet EU countries like Italy have no qualms about supporting the geopolitical aims of China, inevitably strengthening the position of the Chinese tech companies. Which should come to no surprise given their close ties to the communist party [3] [4].

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-01/alibaba-b...

[2] https://www.thestar.com/news/huawei/2019/03/27/canadas-partn...

[3] https://www.ft.com/content/5d0af3c4-846c-11e8-a29d-73e3d4545...

[4] https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/02/tech/china-tech-communist-par...

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#30

Post by markdown » Fri, May 03, 2019, 10:51 PM UTC

andreilys wrote: post #29

A similar case can be made for Chinese tech companies, many of whom are actively complicit in human rights violations [1] [2]. Yet EU countries like Italy have no qualms about supporting the geopolitical aims of China, inevitably strengthening the position of the Chinese tech companies. Which should come to no surprise given their close ties to the communist party [3] [4]. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/…

> A similar case can be made for Chinese companies, many of whom are actively complicit in human rights violations

Snowden showed us that US companies routinely do this, with FISA forcing them to participate just like the Chinese Govt does to Chinese companies. Also, US law only protects the human rights of US citizens, while non-citizens get their privacy invaded routinely (in contravention of Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights).