JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face • Hacker News Board

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#221

Post by AsyncAwait » Fri, May 03, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

caseysoftware wrote: post #219

AsyncAwait wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just can't get behind the whole "abolish ICE" thing. Not saying one way or another, but the argument is that ICE was only formed 16 years ago and that the U.S. was not 'overrun' before then. The Border Patrol etc. would still remain, just the Stasi-like tactics of removing people from their homes in the middle of the night and holding people in cages would disappear. At least that's how I've heard the argument.

ICE was the merger of numerous things, including the INS which pre-dates WW2 making it older than the Air Force, Department of Ed, and dozens of other government agencies. Saying "only formed 16 years ago" is only right among the "well, actually" crowd.

The problem is that a merge increases the centralization of power and the ability to abuse that power with impunity. ICE was only formed 16 years ago as this sort of centralized organization. That is different than going via multiple separate entities, each of which have their own checks and balances, oversight and even internal politics that make it less likely widespread abuse would pass all the links in the chain untamed. That is gone.

The difference in 'effectiveness' is sort of like the difference between the reach of the LAPD intelligence arm vs the CIA.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#222

Post by URSpider94 » Fri, May 03, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

seszett wrote: post #207

lazerwalker wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the parent's point, though, passports ARE checked at the point you exit the Schengen area, whereas they're generally not when you leave the US.

They are checked by the foreign country though, not by the country you're leaving. I have not crossed that many non-Schengen land borders, but as far as I remember it was the same every time, when going from France to England through the channel, Belgium to England by train, France to Switzerland (before Switzerland joined Schengen) and Canada to the US.

Over the past few years, I've flown in and out of the EU dozens of times. Every EU international airport I've flown out of has outbound passport control, operated by the local country, before you enter the international part of the terminal.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#223

Post by rneiss » Fri, May 03, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

Delta too -- though they've been less responsive:

https://twitter.com/RealPressSecBot/status/11232845870635130...

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#224

Post by jtms » Fri, May 03, 2019, 4:46 PM UTC

URSpider94 wrote: post #148

gumby wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's important to know who is crossing the border, in both directions. Why? And if there exists an important reason to know that someone is exiting the country does that same criterion not also apply to exiting a state or city or neighborhood? I am not being sarcastic; I am genuinely unable to come up with a reason it's important to track who leaves almost any place, except in highly unusual cases (e.g. "OK guys, c…

Its worth pointing out that the US is literally the only country in the world that I have visited, in my recollection, that does not have passport control upon exiting the country.

I never really considered this, but I believe you are right. I have travelled to dozens of different countries and the USA is the only one out of those to not have exit customs checks.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#225

Post by dv_dt » Fri, May 03, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

6nf wrote: post #164

kevingadd wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already do this based on names. A former coworker shared his name with his grandfather, and both of them matched the name of a man on the terror watchlist. Naturally, the man was much younger than both of them and of a different nationality, but that didn't stop his grandfather (~50 years older!) from getting stopped and questioned every time he flew.

I was wondering about this. From what I hear it's basically impossible to get a name removed from this watchlist, so short of actually legally changing your name there's basically nothing you can do!?

It's something that was fought around the implementation of the Patriot act, but still needs to be fought. The lack of transparency or ability to easily ask for redress or correction of problems is a significant withholding of due process for many suspects (not convicted or charged) who basically have quasi-warrants out on them by being on the list.

Checking the list via facial recognition adds extra dimensions to the problem, but is the same core problem.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#226

Post by jrockway » Fri, May 03, 2019, 6:46 PM UTC

unreal37 wrote: post #95

jrockway wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never had my picture taken while leaving the United States, which is what this sounds like. Arriving? Sure.

You have not had this knowingly. You have not posed for a photo. But surely, the government has plenty of cameras in customs areas and face recognition has been a thing for a decade.

You don't go through customs areas to leave the US, though.

Maybe the TSA does it, of course.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#227

Post by bzbarsky » Fri, May 03, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

URSpider94 wrote: post #148

gumby wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's important to know who is crossing the border, in both directions. Why? And if there exists an important reason to know that someone is exiting the country does that same criterion not also apply to exiting a state or city or neighborhood? I am not being sarcastic; I am genuinely unable to come up with a reason it's important to track who leaves almost any place, except in highly unusual cases (e.g. "OK guys, c…

Its worth pointing out that the US is literally the only country in the world that I have visited, in my recollection, that does not have passport control upon exiting the country.

There's no exit passport control in Canada either, at least when going to the US (ground or air).

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#228

Post by socksy » Fri, May 03, 2019, 7:46 PM UTC

seszett wrote: post #207

lazerwalker wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the parent's point, though, passports ARE checked at the point you exit the Schengen area, whereas they're generally not when you leave the US.

They are checked by the foreign country though, not by the country you're leaving. I have not crossed that many non-Schengen land borders, but as far as I remember it was the same every time, when going from France to England through the channel, Belgium to England by train, France to Switzerland (before Switzerland joined Schengen) and Canada to the US.

I fly between Germany and UK pretty frequently, and whilst the UK doesn't check the passport on the way out, Germany do check it on the way out (you get checked again when entering into UK).

I have heard of friends of friends who overstayed a visa and get found out on the exit gate (usually bringing a lawyer/embassy official to talk through things). This can lead to a (temporary?) travel ban to Germany and a fine.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#229

Post by parliament32 » Fri, May 03, 2019, 9:58 PM UTC

URSpider94 wrote: post #148

gumby wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's important to know who is crossing the border, in both directions. Why? And if there exists an important reason to know that someone is exiting the country does that same criterion not also apply to exiting a state or city or neighborhood? I am not being sarcastic; I am genuinely unable to come up with a reason it's important to track who leaves almost any place, except in highly unusual cases (e.g. "OK guys, c…

Its worth pointing out that the US is literally the only country in the world that I have visited, in my recollection, that does not have passport control upon exiting the country.

Canada also doesn't have any sort of outgoing passport control that I've seen. Leaving on a flight, it's possible that the airlines pass your info on to CBSA but there are no controls when leaving by car (you literally drive into the US, then see the CBP) or by boat (you have to report on your way in, but not out, see https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/pb-pp-eng.html ).

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#230

Post by lucisferre » Fri, May 03, 2019, 10:31 PM UTC

throwawayjava wrote: post #105

lucisferre wrote: post #49

What is tiring me out about all this "technology improvement" in airport check-in is how confusing it is and how often it changes. There is no one clear process anymore. Last week I went to board a flight and checked in using the phone app. At the airport I needed to get a baggage ticket so I used the machine there for that, but it basically had me go through the whole check-in all over again. On top of that the firs…

Automation and self-serve makes sense even if N% of people fall through the cracks. As long as N is small enough that you can comfortably reduce headcount while not degrading customer experience.

In my case I'm pretty sure N is 100%