Earlier quoted context omitted.
How so? The choice of covering crappy plans is the employer's choice... and crappy plans are what have been pushed AFTER the ACA was passed. Largely by the GoP... Is that what the ACA was, or what someone(s) who want it to fail want? There's a weird narrative where any event is tied to the ACA while they ignore what the healthcare system is in the US overall.
> There's a weird narrative where any event is tied to the ACA while they ignore what the healthcare system is in the US overall. The ACA fundamentally shifted the landscape for the whole healthcare system with minimum coverage mandates (including employer plans), guaranteed issue, etc. It's also led to higher demand for medical services (ie because more people are covered - a good thing) at a time when the number of…
Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible Health Plans
91–100 of 387 posts
Re: Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible Health Plans
#92I've been trying for a while to figure out what would be a good metric to judge the ACA by. Most of the time it's success is talked about in terms of number of people insured, but that doesn't really capture how well insured they are. Life expectancy seems to be the only well known (at least to me) stat that begins to capture the health of the nation. We've now had 3 straight years of declining life expectancy in the…
Re: Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible Health Plans
#93High-deductible health plans were always designed to benefit employers. My company switched us to one with a big PR campaign highlighting how everything would be better (contributions to HSA - free money!). The only "advantage" is that companies have to pay smaller premiums and employees are greatly discouraged from getting care due to high costs. Funny enough, employers are rethinking this now since employees not ge…
> The only "advantage" is that companies have to pay smaller premiums and employees are greatly discouraged from getting care due to high costs. In principle the advantage is that employees are greatly discouraged from paying too much for care. If the insurance pays for everything then what do you care if your doctor is charging $1000 for a physical instead of $50? If you're paying out of pocket, now you care. The pr…
And even list prices themselves are typically starting points for negotiations when a provider is dealing with a large payor whereas an unwell individual (y'know, one who is about to spend a lot of money on healthcare) is not in a great position to bargain with her caregivers, and so is forced to negotiate after the fact, from an artificially inflated starting point, under the guise of bill reduction, or worse, debt relief.
Re: Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible Health Plans
#94Isn't the point of an HDHP that you're supposed to set up an HSA to go with it? Premiums for HDHPs are significantly lower than for normal health plans; the idea is that you're supposed to use the premium savings to fund the HSA, which is then money that carries over year over year, right?
For example, in my state for someone of my age, someone making just enough to not qualify for expanded medicaid gets a subsidy of $1000/month. As income rises to 400% of the poverty level, the subsidy amount drops to $660/month. The subsidy drops to $0 if the income rises above that.
Since an HSA contribution, like a 401k or IRA contribution, comes before taxes, it lowers the income used for ACA subsidy calculations.
The result is that if your income, after 401k or IRA contributions, is such that you do not qualify for an ACA subsidy, but you missed qualification by less than the HSA contribution limit ($3500 in 2019, $4500 if you are 55+), then if you go with an HSA plan and contribute enough to get under the subsidy limit, the subsidy that will get may be more than your HSA costs. Whether or not it will be depends on your age, and how much over the cutoff you were.
It's a ridiculous situation.
Even more ridiculous, the way the subsidy goes from several hundred to nothing as you cross the cutoff means that there are people who are better off taking a pay cut to get into subsidy territory. I know someone who by putting the maximum into his retirement accounts and his HSA was able to just get into subsidy territory, but is now going to have to watch carefully near the end of the year to make sure dividend income from investments doesn't push him over. If there is any danger of that, he might have to go on unpaid leave for a while from work.
Re: Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible Health Plans
#95Our absolutely-perfect no-deductible no-coinsurance plan was retired, and every year, for five years, the cost of our reasonable-deductible no-coinsurance plan kept going up.
Eventually, our broker convinced us that HDCP was the only way.
But I absolutely hated it.
We have quite a few employees with chronic, expensive conditions. Moving a HDCP (in our case 2K/6K family), effectively meant we were cutting their salaries. They were absolutely going to be paying that deductible.
We also employ a LOT of younger people, who just don't go to the doctor more than once a year, maybe. The HDCP wasn't that big a deal for them.
We looked into HSAs – the thing our broker recommended. These are garbage. In theory, we'd put in some amount of money each month, and eventually, over time, the entire premium would be sitting in an account for the employee. For the young and healthy, this was free money. The move to HCDP+HSA was basically a raise for them.
For the chronically-ill, the rate we'd contribute to their HSA was never going to be fast enough to keep pace with their expenses. And for most people, with most savings levels (near $0), a $1500 bill you'll "eventually get back" is just as unaffordable as one they'd never get bet.
I hate HSAs.
"Look, we know most of our folks are NEVER going to hit their deductible. We know a few folks will. Can't we just give everyone a credit card with a 2K limit that they can use to pay for stuff?"
Meet HRAs.
HRAs are like HSAs, but they're not incrementally funded. Instead, it's basically a credit card whose balance I, the employer, pay. It has an annual limit, which matches each employees annual deductible.
These things are amazing.
1. The employee never has to worry about out of pocket cost. They go to the doctor, the doctor charges their HRA.
2. The company has MUCH lower premiums, because we're on an HCDP. I think we saved like 30% or something moving to it.
3. We have a maximum annual additional cost each employee can ring up in medical costs. Worst case scenario (every employee hitting their deductible) isn't fantastic, but we can plan for it.
4. The normal-case scenario is a that a handful of employees hit their deductible very quickly at the beginning of the year, and the rest barely use their HRA at all.
I do not understand why more companies don't do HRAs given the above.
Re: Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible Health Plans
#96So I could give all the money to the insurance company and that money would disappear at the end of the year, or I could give a portion of the money to my own HSA and I would get to keep any leftover at the end of the year. Well, now I had instant regret that I didn't sign up the first year.
The first year was rather rough because we had to pay all health care expenses out of pocket until we met the deductible, but we couldn't reimburse ourselves out of the HSA until the money was in the HSA. But, we met the deductible by April and after that our health care costs were equivalent to what they would have been under the low deductible plan.
By the end of the year we had $4000 left in the account which we then used to pay health care costs in the new year until the deductible was met. Now our HSA is growing year over year.
Re: Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible Health Plans
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
The cost to employers of very good plans massively increased after ACA went into effect. When this changeover happened, I was running a company where we paid 100% for one of the best healthcare plans available in the state for both the employees and their families -- people really appreciated this benefit. This was the polar opposite of a "crappy plan", and it wasn't inexpensive to begin with. After the ACA, this pla…
This is exactly the point I was trying to make in my original comment. Really good healthcare plans (with minimal deductibles and great coverage) used to be a benefit that employers could reasonably provide. Employees/family members who got sick would get good coverage without going broke. Now the cost is of providing that kind of coverage is completely untenable.
Re: Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible Health Plans
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, one of the benefits of a HDHP is that you can use an HSA which can help since pre-tax dollars can be put directly into an HSA by your employer either as a part of your compensation package or as deductions from your paycheck (you can also make deposits with post-tax dollars and deduct them at tax time but you don't get the FICA taxes back then). Many company provided HDHP don't have THAT low of premiums and the…
> For example, I enroll my family in my employer's HDHP. The total premiums from our plan is about $19k this year (employer pays about $14k, I pay about $5k). For this, we have $4k deductible and an $8k max out of pocket coverage. Posts like this really emphasize to me how broken healthcare in America is. This is a fairly standard setup and yet you're paying $23,000 per year before you get anything from your insuranc…
NO HUMANS CAN TELL US HOW MUCH ANYTHING COSTS!
We are continually told that we have to wait for the insurance company to come back with the pricing after the service has been rendered. This is the most infuriating part of it, there is no way for us to understand the costs of services which are recommended to us by our doctors. We are not able to shop around or to understand if we could/should delay any particular service because of cost/benefit ratio because we do not know the cost of anything ahead of time.
At least our preferred local pharmacy will usually call us prior to filling any expensive prescriptions to make sure that we understand the cost. I assume the pharmacy has enough people balk at the cost after they've already filled the prescription and then they have a bunch of headache dealing with putting the pills back so they've gotten proactive about it.
Re: Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible Health Plans
#99You can argue that the ACA improved the healthcare system overall. But it's been tough for people who were already covered by employer insurance. I think people fail to appreciate that prior to the ACA, when the healthcare system worked, it actually worked really well. I got very sick at the age of 20 while I was still on my parents very modest insurance (pre-ACA). Within 48 hours I had an appointment at the best onc…
I'm not seeing the connection to the ACA in your argument. If your argument is that the ACA raised the price of health insurance, that's incorrect: health insurance premiums had been skyrocketing prior to the ACA (that crisis was what generated the political capital to pass the bill), and the ACA in fact reduced the rate of growth in health care costs.
year | growth rate
2005 | 6.7% (Bankruptcy act passed making it harder to discharge medical debt)
2006 | 6.5%
2007 | 6.5%
2008 | 4.5% (Great Recession)
2009 | 4.0%
2010 | 4.1% (ACA Signed)
2011 | 3.5%
2012 | 4.0%
2013 | 2.9% (ACA Taxes)
2014 | 5.1% (Exchanges Open)
2015 | 5.8%
2016 | 4.3%
2017 | 3.9%
There are also a couple of timing advantages that people give credit to the ACA that would have happened otherwise.
There were a lot more prescription drugs created after the Orphan Drug Act and the Hatch-Waxman bills of the early 80's. So the timeline for that is 83-84 laws passed => research => 1990-1999 prescription drug explosion => 2010 - 2019 patents expire. This lead to a dramatic increase in costs over this period, but this is good since people now have access to drugs that wouldn't otherwise exist. The patents expire and the costs decrease, and they won't likely increase further due to the nature of those bills.
You could also make the point that from 2001-2006 you should see higher healthcare costs due to war.
A lot of the calculated savings are based on government projections of future spending. We can go off on a tangent on how good the CBO is at its job, but I think we could agree that predicting the future is hard and people are frequently wrong about their predictions.
Furthermore, lower costs aren't necessarily a positive thing. To put it simply if you are buying a BMW and I am buying a Kia, they are both cars but you aren't unhappy to pay the higher price.
Percentage increases also get harder to maintain as time goes on.
Re: Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible Health Plans
#100High-deductible health plans were always designed to benefit employers. My company switched us to one with a big PR campaign highlighting how everything would be better (contributions to HSA - free money!). The only "advantage" is that companies have to pay smaller premiums and employees are greatly discouraged from getting care due to high costs. Funny enough, employers are rethinking this now since employees not ge…
> The only "advantage" is that companies have to pay smaller premiums and employees are greatly discouraged from getting care due to high costs. In principle the advantage is that employees are greatly discouraged from paying too much for care. If the insurance pays for everything then what do you care if your doctor is charging $1000 for a physical instead of $50? If you're paying out of pocket, now you care. The pr…
Transparency is only half the battle. Setting prices to something reasonable is the other half.