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America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

nytimes.com

31–40 of 314 posts

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an intriguing trend in the United States where, for the past several decades, the number of gun owners has gone down but the number of guns has gone up.

Do you mean the percentage of owners? I can count on one hand the number of people I know who own a home but don't own a firearm.

What state do you live?

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. This isn't a unique tale for a firearms manufacturer. This is a common tale for nearly any type of manufacturer that is bought out by private equity firms. They reduce costs and quality, load it with debt, suck it dry, and then dump it on their creditors.

I’ve read about this scenario many times, but I’m curious about why any creditor would lend money to a company that’s poised to do this. Wouldn’t these private equity firms lose the ability to borrow money based on past practices like this?

If the article is to be believed:

> When these so-called “leveraged buyouts” worked, investors made a hundred or a thousand times their money.

then it only needs to work a small percentage of times they try it to remain highly profitable.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#33

Not a mystery: Private equity firm bought them out with borrowed money, raided their resources to enrich themselves, then left Remington to rot. It is a common story now. The private equity firm makes a bunch of money and people are jobless.

I get that money is money, but I feel like we desperately need to make conflict of interests prosecutable, so we can kill the self-serving mess that are LBOs.

In what universe is "I borrow a bunch of money, buy a company, then force the company to basically borrow money from me" a value-creating operation? Cuz it sure isn't this one.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#34
> A plunge in NIC checks foreshadows a corresponding plunge in gun sales

I'm curious about this statement. NIC checks are, as the name implies, instant. They happen upon transfer of ownership of a firearm from an FFL dealer. So I'm not sure how they 'foreshadow' sales, more likely they mirror sales. In fact, when you purchase a gun online, the sale occurs before the check...

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an intriguing trend in the United States where, for the past several decades, the number of gun owners has gone down but the number of guns has gone up.

Do you mean the percentage of owners? I can count on one hand the number of people I know who own a home but don't own a firearm.

I did mean the percentage, but it does look like the absolute number of households owning guns has very slightly declined.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#36
> Because private-equity firms appear frequently as villains in the press, many people assume that they cater mostly to the superrich, earning high returns on investments for billionaire clients. They do. But by far the most important piece of their business — 48 percent, according to the data-analytics firm Preqin — is investing capital for American pension funds.

This doesn't get mentioned often enough when talking about the "1-percenters" and the wealth gap in Western countries, i.e. that most of the capital behind all of the current economic and social system is directly or indirectly held by part of the general populace itself.

The issue is of course that the other part of the populace (generally speaking people under 35 who cannot put money towards their retirement funds or who can only get temp jobs) are not part of this financial arrangement and, as it so happens, are also some of the worst affected by the current economic set-up (those temp jobs I was mentioning are not as great as the normal full-time jobs held by people whose pension funds are managed by the companies investing in Cerberus).

Afaik almost no politician has focused on this social and economical contradiction, if I may call it this way, some of them are putting whole of the blame on the 1-percenters, some of them are choosing to ignore it all together, but almost no-one has actually looked at the real numbers. And the real numbers tell the story of a society divided in two, a part that will manage to enjoy its pension and the other part that has no clue how will pay for its old age.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#37
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the issue - perhaps - of market saturation. How many guns does one need? My pro-gun friends typically seem to have 2-3 but shy away from any more than that.

As a firearm enthusiast, the answer to "How many guys does one need?" is always "Just one more." It's a fun hobby that I can spend time with my kids. They also make great investments as a quality firearm holds it worth and often increases in value.

Yeah, take any hobby or sport or whatever that involves "gear" of some sort, and you'll get some variation of the old saw:

"The correct number of $ITEM to own is n+1, where n is the number you own now."

$ITEM can be "mountain bikes", "guitars", "road bikes", "motorcycles", "guns" or pretty much anything.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#38

This is not an uncommon story for firearm manufacturers unfortunately. Tooling costs are high, sales hard to predict, and designs can fail easily. Ian McCollum of Forgotten Weapons has done a lot of videos on this topic.

There's also the issue - perhaps - of market saturation. How many guns does one need? My pro-gun friends typically seem to have 2-3 but shy away from any more than that.

Hell, I’m an order of magnitude higher, and am on the low end.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#39

Not a mystery: Private equity firm bought them out with borrowed money, raided their resources to enrich themselves, then left Remington to rot. It is a common story now. The private equity firm makes a bunch of money and people are jobless.

PS - the owners of these company's are also complicit as they let the PE shops come in in the first place.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#40

Not a mystery: Private equity firm bought them out with borrowed money, raided their resources to enrich themselves, then left Remington to rot. It is a common story now. The private equity firm makes a bunch of money and people are jobless.

Yeah the article goes through the mechanism, but it's not a new story that private equity firms buy companies with debt that the target company ends up owning. It's a little bit interesting to read about how it's done but it's basically the same thing you can read about in Barbarians At the Gate. It's not that they wanted or didn't care about Remington going bankrupt -- if Remington doesn't pay back those loans, it'll be harder for Cerberus to fund the next LBO, Cerberus would prefer that the hedge funds who loaned the money make back their money -- it's that it's highly leveraged and very risky. They assume it won't work every time, but the law of averages isn't comforting to the people working at Remington.
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