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Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

theaustralian.com.au

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Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#121

Post by ra »

astrec wrote: post #36
viggity wrote: post #7

If all wikileaks was doing was publishing information about illegal or highly suspect acts by the government it'd be one thing. But that isn't all they're doing, and it is these other releases that has really pissed me off. For instance, what legitimate purpose does it serve to release a list of infrastructure that are critical to national security? ( http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jWvPaI6hI... )…

Australia's Foreign Minister - who has been reasonably conspicuous in the cables released so far - covered this issue during a presser on Monday: QUESTION: Mr Rudd, just on that question. Do you think WikiLeaks will have a chilling effect on diplomacy, and, you know, back-room talks. KEVIN RUDD: I think it's having a focusing effect. QUESTION: As far as, you know, making people more cautious, and making diplomacy [in…

Now that's how a real Prime Minister talks. We definitely don't have a PM of that intellectual caliber today.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#122

Post by Semiapies »

jacquesm wrote: post #118
Semiapies wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An island with boats, international airports, and a Chunnel. I wouldn't be willing to bet much money that he couldn't get out of the country if he were free and of a mind to flee.

As European countries come England is the hardest to get in and out of and it's not like Julian Assange is not going to be recognized on sight by half a million people at least by now. The boats all leave from ports where there are customs inspections, crew and captains who would all not be too happy giving shelter to a fugitive, international airports need a pass by immigration and the chunnel does too. Lots of ille…

No, I think you're overestimating the difficulty of leaving a country illegally, even England. Assange isn't a poor "illegal", he's a guy with money and ideological supporters.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#123

Post by Semiapies »

julian37 wrote: post #120
jacquesm wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'risk' would be that he would flee abroad, and last I checked England was an island. Also, fleeing would make him look pretty bad in the eyes of many and I personally don't think he would be stupid enough to do so (that's not much of a guarantee, I'll give you that), since capture (see 'island') is almost inevitable. I wonder if anybody has access to what those maximum penalties of the charges brought are (under…

To be pedantic, England is not an island, nor is the UK, strictly speaking (it shares a land border with the Republic of Ireland). Great Britain is an island.

But what about Wales?

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#124

Post by MoreMoschops »

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #47
jacquesm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which makes me wonder what is in the leaks that we haven't seen yet. After all if highly placed officials are getting their panties in a twist based on what we've seen so far then they are over-reacting to put it mildly. Time will tell. Some of the responses from politicians are beyond the pale and what bugs me more is that nobody even thinks of calling them to account over this, or so much as distancing themselves f…

It honestly wouldn't shock me that the restarted attacks on North and South Korea weren't because of Wikileaks. Or for that matter, I'd be surprised that the US isn't having setbacks on many diplomatic processes.

I, too, am not shocked that the restarted attacks twixt North and South Korea are not because of Wikileaks.

I think your double-negative statement alluding to Wikileaks not being of world-changing importance has been missed by people who type faster than they can think.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#125

Post by MoreMoschops »

jacquesm wrote: post #118
Semiapies wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An island with boats, international airports, and a Chunnel. I wouldn't be willing to bet much money that he couldn't get out of the country if he were free and of a mind to flee.

As European countries come England is the hardest to get in and out of and it's not like Julian Assange is not going to be recognized on sight by half a million people at least by now. The boats all leave from ports where there are customs inspections, crew and captains who would all not be too happy giving shelter to a fugitive, international airports need a pass by immigration and the chunnel does too. Lots of ille…

You can quite literally get into a yacht anywhere on the coast and sail away. Nobody will stop you. I've done it many times.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#126

Post by resdirector »

crocowhile wrote: post #59
swombat wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to TFA: * Sarah Palin says I should be "hunted down like Osama bin Laden", a Republican bill sits before the US Senate seeking to have me declared a "transnational threat" and disposed of accordingly. An adviser to the Canadian Prime Minister's office has called on national television for me to be assassinated. An American blogger has called for my 20-year-old son, here in Australia, to be kidnapped and har…

This doesn't really answer your parent's question, does it? If you use TFA or RTFA make sure you do it properly, it's rude.

Agreed. Not only does it not answer my question, it's against the HN guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#127

Post by jacquesm »

kabuks wrote: post #115
jacquesm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa has since followed suit. : http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jzXb7... The only corporate entity so far that does not have egg all over its face on this one is the French OVH which went to a judge to establish whether or not wikileaks was illegal according to French law, the judge rejected the first request and asked for more info on the second, pending a ruling OVH says they've done what the…

And twitter. They haven't shut down the wikileaks account, and my wild guess is that it's not because nobody is pressuring them too.

Good point, sorry, I'd forgotten about them.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#128

Post by rhizome »

lkjhgfvhjk wrote: post #76
TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It honestly wouldn't shock me that the restarted attacks on North and South Korea weren't because of Wikileaks. Or for that matter, I'd be surprised that the US isn't having setbacks on many diplomatic processes.

You think Kim Jong-Il was shocked to discover that he wasn't a towering international statesman and decided to attack S Korea because of it?

No, but he may have been surprised to find out that China supports unification.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#129

Post by rayval »

TheBurningOr wrote: post #111
jacquesm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which makes me wonder what is in the leaks that we haven't seen yet. After all if highly placed officials are getting their panties in a twist based on what we've seen so far then they are over-reacting to put it mildly. Time will tell. Some of the responses from politicians are beyond the pale and what bugs me more is that nobody even thinks of calling them to account over this, or so much as distancing themselves f…

I wonder too about the leaks we haven't seen yet either, but at the same time, wouldn't WikiLeaks want to release the most scandalous and head-line grabbing info first? That would go a long way towards vindicating their position in the public eye.

Here is some wikileaks information about US practices in Afghanistan that is quite shocking:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/12/wikileaks_te...

For those who don't click on the link, the article refers to cables in which US diplomats discuss how to quash a journalist writing about a private US military contractor procuring young boys to be sex-party favors in order to help motivate Aghan police recruits. The argument that the US diplomats discuss using in order to prevent publicity is that this reporting will "endanger lives".

Here is the cable: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/...

I think this is quite scandalous and shocking. Maybe it's just me. I don't understand why stuff like this has not received much press coverage in the US.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#130

Post by michael_dorfman »

crocowhile wrote: post #59
swombat wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to TFA: * Sarah Palin says I should be "hunted down like Osama bin Laden", a Republican bill sits before the US Senate seeking to have me declared a "transnational threat" and disposed of accordingly. An adviser to the Canadian Prime Minister's office has called on national television for me to be assassinated. An American blogger has called for my 20-year-old son, here in Australia, to be kidnapped and har…

This doesn't really answer your parent's question, does it? If you use TFA or RTFA make sure you do it properly, it's rude.

Yes, it does. Explicitly and clearly. With a direct quotation.

What more could you ask for?

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