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In search of a truce in the autism wars

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Re: In search of a truce in the autism wars

#121

Post by Mikhail_Edoshin »

analognoise wrote: post #101

I have kids. If I knew I was going to have an autistic one, I'd have aborted. We only have to put up with this until there's a screening test. Then the problem will take care of itself, like the way Tay-Sachs is disappearing.

But if the cause is genetic and is due to a particular combination of otherwise harmless or even beneficial genes, as it has been speculated here in the comments, then autism itself won't disappear. What would disappear is the need to care for such a child or to watch it deteriorate and die early as with Tay-Sachs. I.e. basically a Spartan way to deal with this. Is this what you meant?

Re: In search of a truce in the autism wars

#122

Post by pjc50 »

cybersnowflake wrote: post #94

Anyone who thinks autism is just a difference in personality that doesn't need treatment is welcome to foot the bill for all the people including my nephew who has difficulty talking and cannot live independently now and may very well continue to be this way long after his parents pass away.

There's a difference between the treatment that his caregivers require in order to reduce their workload and manage their costs, and the treatment that he wants for managing his own condition.

(I appreciate that this is extremely difficult or impossible for the most severely impaired people, but the original article involves people with autism who are more articulate about their condition)

Re: In search of a truce in the autism wars

#123

Post by pjc50 »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #111

One issue that impacts this debate is the general trend that only severely impaired people self identify as disabled. People who are able to get adequate accommodation to function in life without such labels tend to distance themselves from such labels. My ex husband had severe handwriting issues. He was a cis het white male with a serious career. He was able to use his favorite pen, among other things, without needi…

Can I just say that this is the most interesting thing I've read on HN all week? Thankyou for writing it.

You've reminded me of all the "kitchen gadgets" that are mocked for uselessness when really they're accomodation devices, but for marketing purposes they absolutely cannot be described as that.

Re: In search of a truce in the autism wars

#124

Post by empressplay »

klonderdonk wrote: post #117
ekimekim wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you described is a physical trait, not something deeply intertwined with your personality and identity. For people with mild autism, a closer analogy would be an aspect of your personality. Do you like to travel and explore new places? Imagine it was a major aspect of your life, to the point that you'd get uncomfortable staying in one place too long. How would you like it if someone told you that you shoul…

I’d argue that it’s only autism if it’s severe. During the 1980’s being socially awkward wasn’t a clinical medical condition. If you disrupted class in the 1980’s, you got taken out of general population, and put into special education with a high ratio of teachers or aides, and received a proximity of attention as needed, and that was your generalized clinical marker for genuine problems. The consensus of the elemen…

Sorry, but you can't simplify autism into just two camps like that.

My personal example is I was diagnosed with autism in the early 1980s. And it really was warranted. I had serious difficulties with school – I had problems speaking, dressing myself and tying my shoes (amongst other things). I got into rages and fights. And my personal relationship skills with anyone outside of my family were zero. But I also had a pretty decent IQ, and I learned to manage the overstimulation and emotional tsunamis. Then I was able to survive.

There was also a high-IQ program in my school district, filled mostly with people 'on the spectrum' (not generally as disadvantaged as myself though), and the teachers involved with that helped me through school generally. But I couldn't go to college, it was just too much.

Life since hasn't been easy but I've been able to work as a technician and take care of myself. So I don't fit in either of your camps, and lots of other autistics don't either.

Re: In search of a truce in the autism wars

#125

Post by turbo_fart_box »

pjc50 wrote: post #122
cybersnowflake wrote: post #94

Anyone who thinks autism is just a difference in personality that doesn't need treatment is welcome to foot the bill for all the people including my nephew who has difficulty talking and cannot live independently now and may very well continue to be this way long after his parents pass away.

There's a difference between the treatment that his caregivers require in order to reduce their workload and manage their costs, and the treatment that he wants for managing his own condition. (I appreciate that this is extremely difficult or impossible for the most severely impaired people, but the original article involves people with autism who are more articulate about their condition)

As Yoda once said... "Only a sith deals in absolutes"

Re: In search of a truce in the autism wars

#126

Post by _nalply »

empressplay wrote: post #124
klonderdonk wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d argue that it’s only autism if it’s severe. During the 1980’s being socially awkward wasn’t a clinical medical condition. If you disrupted class in the 1980’s, you got taken out of general population, and put into special education with a high ratio of teachers or aides, and received a proximity of attention as needed, and that was your generalized clinical marker for genuine problems. The consensus of the elemen…

Sorry, but you can't simplify autism into just two camps like that. My personal example is I was diagnosed with autism in the early 1980s. And it really was warranted. I had serious difficulties with school – I had problems speaking, dressing myself and tying my shoes (amongst other things). I got into rages and fights. And my personal relationship skills with anyone outside of my family were zero. But I also had a p…

Thank you for your story. My younger son has been diagnosed with early childhood autism. My wife and I think that it is not in a very strong form, but our neuropaediatrician tells us that regular kindergarten would be too much for him.

In our opinion the problem is that regular school is just not flexible enough to accomodate children like him. So we are going to enrol him in a Montessori school where he already knows people from the playgroup. The headmistress told us that they accept him and they will employ a therapeutic education teacher for him and two other childrens who are also special.

We will see how it works out.

Re: In search of a truce in the autism wars

#127

Post by DanBC »

klonderdonk wrote: post #117
ekimekim wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you described is a physical trait, not something deeply intertwined with your personality and identity. For people with mild autism, a closer analogy would be an aspect of your personality. Do you like to travel and explore new places? Imagine it was a major aspect of your life, to the point that you'd get uncomfortable staying in one place too long. How would you like it if someone told you that you shoul…

I’d argue that it’s only autism if it’s severe. During the 1980’s being socially awkward wasn’t a clinical medical condition. If you disrupted class in the 1980’s, you got taken out of general population, and put into special education with a high ratio of teachers or aides, and received a proximity of attention as needed, and that was your generalized clinical marker for genuine problems. The consensus of the elemen…

> being socially awkward wasn’t a clinical medical condition.

Being socially awkward is neither sufficient nor required for an autism diagnosis.

> If you can brush your teeth, comb your hair, tie your shoes, and iron and fold clothes but choose not to then you aren’t autistic.

None of these are symptoms of autism.

Re: In search of a truce in the autism wars

#128

Post by DanBC »

dmm wrote: post #88
keenmaster wrote: post #17

We’re probably all better off because some people have autism. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s an evolutionary explanation for its prevalence. However, there are so many consequences to being “abnormal” that most neurotypicals would refuse to be reincarnated as autistic if given the choice. If you have autism, the traits conferred by the condition have become part of your identity. You very well may not see it as…

> most neurotypicals would refuse to be reincarnated as autistic if given the choice. The autistic people you know are the lucky ones. 80% of people with autism have intellectual disabilities(low iq) and as many as 50% are non-verbal. It's more than not wanting to be someone perceived as quirky or strange.

> 80% of people with autism have intellectual disabilities(low iq) and as many as 50% are non-verbal.

That's because diagnosis is geared to those people. Adults who cope relatively well in most situations don't know they have autism, don't seek a diagnosis, and there isn't a dx service available to them if they do know what to ask for.

Re: In search of a truce in the autism wars

#129

Post by ionised »

bsder wrote: post #89
everdrive wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is that not all cultures demand extroversion so much. See Japan, Austria, etc as some easy throw away examples. No one there is considered strange for being a bit stiff and un-expressive.

Why would you mention Japan when the word hikikomori exists?

Hikikimori is not synonymous with introversion.

Re: In search of a truce in the autism wars

#130

Post by TheOperator »

ekimekim wrote: post #104
NeoBasilisk wrote: post #52

I fully acknowledge that conditions affecting the brain will have a much larger impact on one's identity. That much is obvious. That being said, if I had the option to "correct" most of my personal atypical genetic "variations," I would do so. Colorblindness? Yep, I don't want that. Congenital flat feet? I don't need those. IBS? No thanks. Hair loss starting at 17? Nope! Weird neurological symptoms no doctor has ever…

Everything you described is a physical trait, not something deeply intertwined with your personality and identity. For people with mild autism, a closer analogy would be an aspect of your personality. Do you like to travel and explore new places? Imagine it was a major aspect of your life, to the point that you'd get uncomfortable staying in one place too long. How would you like it if someone told you that you shoul…

>I really wish they had different names.

There was a different name. Aspergers.

The low functioning with autism by the way tend to be happier than the high functioning. So from the perspective of the person being curee I'm not certain being low functioning would make them want to be cured more.

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