Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#231

Post by jondubois » Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 8:47 AM UTC

pbourke wrote: post #202

dyeje wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, people are usually promoted into management when they demonstrate leadership. I see you talk about your technical ability a lot, but that is generally not the core competency of an engineering manager. I suggest working on those abilities. It is very much so one of those situations where doing the job will get you the title.

> In my experience, people are usually promoted into management when they demonstrate leadership. Really? In my experience, people are often promoted into management when they demonstrate political ability. Often the people who I consider the true leaders - engineers who everyone considers competent, good advisors, mentors and role models, etc - continue quietly being engineers. Several times, I’ve seen organizations…

Agreed. The definition of leadership that most leaders have in mind is very superficial. They just want people who look and talk like a leader but they're willing to compromise on everything else (all things that actually matter in terms of producing value). Most software companies either are mini-monopolies or they are able to keep securing VC funding through social connections so they can afford to have mediocre leaders who can talk but don't deliver.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#232

Post by dv_dt » Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

cheerlessbog wrote: post #174

tomduncalf wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know how it works in the US but in the U.K. becoming a contractor can provide a good half way house between being employed and running your own company. You’re not an employee so no performance reviews or line management and you are responsible for running your own company, but at the same time many contracts will be working with teams of permanent staff for 6 months or more so it’s not like you are off total…

This may be easier in the UK as your healthcare is not tied to your employment.

Having worked with contractors in the US, there are some added legal cautions where employers for especially software contractors to not setup too long/close of an engagement. But, in general many contractors will end up working for a larger contractor house which carries your vacation/healthcare etc. They of course take a cut to do that. None of them are exemplary, but some are less terrible. An arrangement of a cooperative of contractors and even whole mini teams could control more of their own destiny would be interesting there.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#233

Post by pkalinowski » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 11:14 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #222

pkalinowski wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being in management is way different than running your own company. One side project doesn’t have to earn 200k/yr. you can have 5 of them, each making 50k. Running them as single software company is way less management work than managing your team in big company environment.

So you’re going to run 5 $50K side projects by yourself, including maintenance, support, marketing, feature addition etc?

How much maintenance, support, marketing and feature addition is needed?

Let's say you need 1-2 hours a day for every of your product (all activities combined)

Being a manager means 5-8 hours a day managing people, not working on products.

So the time is similar, but your work on product, not manage people. Way different.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#234

Post by Aeolun » Fri, May 03, 2019, 3:29 AM UTC

kaetemi wrote: post #73

indogooner wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes the average ones are like that but the good ones I have seen provide a broader perspective, simplify solution, prevent the excited devs from trying out complicated solution with hyped but unsuitable technologies among other things. They save so much time and effort of an org that they are much more valuable than many managers.

So many self-proclaimed architects who do literally the opposite.

We need extra layers and proxies! For, uh, security reasons!

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#235

Post by jondubois » Sat, May 04, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

mixmastamyk wrote: post #208

jondubois wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run and maintain a successful open source project which is used by thousands of companies and has a small team of contributors who work for free. So maybe your definition of leadership is outdated. It should be all about results. All the rest is BS IMO.

Maybe you have bad habits, maybe you aren’t in the right social circles. Maybe not interviewing at enough companies. Hard to say. But you should keep your mind open and not only point a finger outward. Believe there are management coaches that might spot self defeating habits quickly. Books like andy grove’s and innovators dilemma, peopleware, dale carnegie etc, can help too.

>> maybe you aren’t in the right social circles

I think this may be the case. I don't have many friends but those that I do have are very close.

The foundation of most friendships among the wealthy seems to be shared financial interests. This is not real friendship IMO and I cannot understand why supposedly intelligent people (who already have a high level of financial security) would participate in this kind of social theater where everyone is acting and everyone knows that everyone else is also acting and yet they all keep playing along. Friendships must be founded around core values not around mutual financial interests.