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JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

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Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#101

Here in Australia we have automated passport control gates that scan a chip in our passport then takes a photo of our face (and I assume does some matching with our passport photo) before allowing reentry. It's quite quick and very convenient. Although I'm not aware of any airlines being able to use the system for boarding.

Traveling extensively the past year I have noticed the following which are probably all coming into our lives soon. (a) In many countries border entry is accompanied by a fingerprint scan which will be either a left and right index finger scan or a scan of the whole left hand. The scans are done at inbound border crossings in conjunction with the passport check. (b) In many countries both border exit and entry are paired with the taking of a photograph. In some places it appears the exit photograph is validated automatically by software. (c) In some cities, the subways have security checks at entry and in those places photographs are taken, non obviously, by the security equipment. I am not sure how effective these systems are at tracking. I guessing ideally governments would like to pair these photos with a passive probe of something carried on the body like a phone or official id, something that could link the photo to an already verified identity. (d) On country entry, purchases like SIM cards for local telephone service or public transportation pass cards can only be acquired if one presents an official id. Manual computer entry usually links the card to the presented id.

And here is a prediction, getting a record of faces and fingerprints, and tracking movement is on the agenda right now. In the future there will be a equally focused agenda to acquire records of peoples DNA. In countries where there is nationalized health service, it will eventually be required. Aquisition will begin when the cost of storing, acquiring, and searching that DNA information becomes cheap enough.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#102
post #59
post #21

Privacy concerns aside, I can't wait to read the "Facial Recognition let me on the wrong flight when I got in the wrong line by accident" articles that are going to come out of this. Unless these systems have some fantastic (1e-6) P_{false alarm} rate or better, people are going to be mistaken for other people and let on the wrong flight sooner or later.

I'm predicting perfectly innocent people who happen to have some algorithmic resemblance to some murderers and terrorists to be detained.

They already do this based on names. A former coworker shared his name with his grandfather, and both of them matched the name of a man on the terror watchlist. Naturally, the man was much younger than both of them and of a different nationality, but that didn't stop his grandfather (~50 years older!) from getting stopped and questioned every time he flew.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, you need photo ID to fly and pass customs.

You don’t need photo ID to fly. TSA will ask you questions from your credit report and allow you to board. *US citizens flying within the states.

From TSA press release April 4, 2019 (https://www.tsa.gov/news/releases/2019/04/04/tsa-reminds-tra...): "Travelers will begin seeing new signs at airports nationwide in the coming weeks to remind people that REAL ID-compliant licenses or other acceptable forms of ID, such as a valid passport, federal government PIV card or U.S. military ID, will be mandatory for air travel beginning on October 1, 2020. Critically important, on October 1, 2020, individuals who are unable to verify their identity will not be permitted to enter the TSA checkpoint and will not be allowed to fly."

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#104

Most relevant details, from the last link [1]: > It took her photo, comparing her picture to a preloaded photo databased of all the passengers with tickets on this flight, and then she got a check mark, indicating she was cleared to board. The whole process took about five to six seconds. > The Aruba experiment is expected to last somewhere between 45 and 90 days. > "We're basically capturing that picture at the boar…

> CBP insists it'll discard photos taken of citizens, and only keep a database of non-citizens.

So only non-citizens would be able to "use" the face-as-boarding-pass "feature"?

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#105

What is tiring me out about all this "technology improvement" in airport check-in is how confusing it is and how often it changes. There is no one clear process anymore. Last week I went to board a flight and checked in using the phone app. At the airport I needed to get a baggage ticket so I used the machine there for that, but it basically had me go through the whole check-in all over again. On top of that the firs…

Automation and self-serve makes sense even if N% of people fall through the cracks. As long as N is small enough that you can comfortably reduce headcount while not degrading customer experience.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#106
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's also always been pretty normal to have your photo taken by countries when passing through passport control. No not always, only recently. > I don't really see what the problem would be here? You’re kidding right? There’s multiple privacy problems. Sounds like you either benefit from mass surveillance or have been conditioned to it.

> You’re kidding right? There’s multiple privacy problems. No, not kidding. There's a legitimate government interest in identifying people entering and leaving a country. This isn't Facebook, or even cameras on street corners -- this is a government responsible for enforcing legitimate immigration policies at a legitimate location (the border) for a wide variety of reasons (safety, economic, etc.), which absolutely r…

Out of interest, how would you argue against someone using your justifications for facial recognition on street corners, which you seem to think is a step too far?

Would your argument against street corner recognition systems have been different before and after facial recognition was required at the border?

You mention that having your photo taken at passport control is “pretty normal”. Do you remember when it was not? Would you be more concerned if we had gone straight from a situation where no pictures were taken, to rolling out a facial recognition system at the border?

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#107
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the problem with a new photo being taken? You say it like it is obvious but you haven’t actually made your thinking known. Wasting taxpayer money in photo storage is a laugh. That isn’t the same category of argument as the idea that is is “overreach.”

I think the issue here is not where we are at but the risks inherent. It would be entirely possible to have a benevolent dictator, he might think he is doing everything for the benefit of the people - and he might even be right. This situation is fine, the issue is what happens when that dictator dies. Similarly with mass surveillance, if used with restraint and for the right reasons it could be completely fine. The…

>It would be entirely possible to have a benevolent dictator

You lost me at this straw man. You are tossing around nebulous and vague concerns. Would it be fair to say your concern is potential abuse of your photos by a government entity?

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, you need photo ID to fly and pass customs.

You don’t need photo ID to fly. TSA will ask you questions from your credit report and allow you to board. *US citizens flying within the states.

Oh, sorry, you don’t have ID? Oh… I hate to tell you, but… I guess you live in Dallas now. I think you need to start a new life here in Dallas, and work hard until you get a new ID. And then you could use that ID to fly back to your old life and get your old ID.

- Hannibal Buress

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#109
post #60

I can bet that they have a copy of all photos on their servers. No company will be foolish enough to build a business/service that relies on another entity, much so a government organization that is not known for building highly scalable services. This is a crucial part of their process and any delays will impact their bottom line. So they have all faces with them and so does every other company. Also, just the face…

This is foolish. It would be very dumb for a company to take the liability if they did not have to.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#110

Here in Australia we have automated passport control gates that scan a chip in our passport then takes a photo of our face (and I assume does some matching with our passport photo) before allowing reentry. It's quite quick and very convenient. Although I'm not aware of any airlines being able to use the system for boarding.

Same in Europe. You arrive at Frankfurt Airport. None EU citizens are questioned as if they are terrorists. I go to electronic doors. I put my EU passport to the gate. The camera scans my face and then computer compares it with the photo in my EU passport (there is HD photo within the passport chip). And the door opens. I'm back home in EU. No police, no border control other than that few seconds camera check.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=nl.innovalor.n...

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