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JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

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Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#91

Post by yalogin »

mienski wrote: post #64
yalogin wrote: post #60

I can bet that they have a copy of all photos on their servers. No company will be foolish enough to build a business/service that relies on another entity, much so a government organization that is not known for building highly scalable services. This is a crucial part of their process and any delays will impact their bottom line. So they have all faces with them and so does every other company. Also, just the face…

While I’m totally onboard with the privacy concerns, this is ridiculous FUD to just assume that every company just took on the security and storage risk of holding that data. Find me an enterprise department/exec that would willingly take that on to support a trial. The corporate bogeyman is a great story but I think you’re being a little unrealistic here. These systems typically allow the picture to be sent in with…

I don’t think so. I am being completely reasonable and rational here. Let me ask this, what is special about JetBlue? If JetBlue doesn’t host the service on their data centers would they be willing to offer such a service? If a government agency can reasonably be expected to not play favorites and offer the service to anyone within reason, do you think they will be able to scale it up and offer the kind of SLAa expected by money making businesses? Why would an agency want to get in to that endeavor?

Please, offer me alternative view points rather than calling my theory FUD.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#92

Post by unreal37 »

yalogin wrote: post #60

I can bet that they have a copy of all photos on their servers. No company will be foolish enough to build a business/service that relies on another entity, much so a government organization that is not known for building highly scalable services. This is a crucial part of their process and any delays will impact their bottom line. So they have all faces with them and so does every other company. Also, just the face…

They say that the photos are discarded after being compared by the government on government servers with the original.

So you're saying, they're lying. Which might be true. But you'd need to prove that.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#93

Post by pixelbash »

sunir wrote: post #85
mLuby wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct—it is reasonable for governments to require a photo of yourself to associate with your passport. But it is not necessary to take a new photo every time you interact with the government. That's overreach, or at minimum wasting taxpayer money on unneeded photo storage. And I'd wager the reason they're doing this is because while a human can make a decent determination of whether the photo matches the per…

What is the problem with a new photo being taken? You say it like it is obvious but you haven’t actually made your thinking known. Wasting taxpayer money in photo storage is a laugh. That isn’t the same category of argument as the idea that is is “overreach.”

I think the issue here is not where we are at but the risks inherent.

It would be entirely possible to have a benevolent dictator, he might think he is doing everything for the benefit of the people - and he might even be right. This situation is fine, the issue is what happens when that dictator dies.

Similarly with mass surveillance, if used with restraint and for the right reasons it could be completely fine. The problem is what happens if the situation changes, there is now a massively powerful tool available with little recourse for change.

I think the issue is not the situation as it is _now_, it's the risk potential it inherently has that is terrifying.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#94

Post by unreal37 »

kruegel wrote: post #34

> Was my image, in the space of those seconds, sent to CBP, run through a database, matched to a name, and then sent back to @JetBlue? Actually, it was probably done in a fraction of a second.

Yes, that was a funny thing she tweeted. So surprised that a few KB of data was transmitted on a high speed network in under a second. :)

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#95

Post by unreal37 »

jrockway wrote: post #36
iNate2000 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been a few years since I traveled international - but CBP already takes pictures at passport control, don't they?

I have never had my picture taken while leaving the United States, which is what this sounds like. Arriving? Sure.

You have not had this knowingly. You have not posed for a photo.

But surely, the government has plenty of cameras in customs areas and face recognition has been a thing for a decade.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#96

Post by unreal37 »

lurquer wrote: post #70
compiler-guy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This about consent and control.

Disagree. There is nothing private about your face. It's feigned outrage.

Right, anyone can take a picture of you in a public place, such as an airport, without consent. You give your picture to the government for passports and drivers licenses. You don't have to consent to them comparing the two.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#97

Post by seandougall »

yalogin wrote: post #91
mienski wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I’m totally onboard with the privacy concerns, this is ridiculous FUD to just assume that every company just took on the security and storage risk of holding that data. Find me an enterprise department/exec that would willingly take that on to support a trial. The corporate bogeyman is a great story but I think you’re being a little unrealistic here. These systems typically allow the picture to be sent in with…

I don’t think so. I am being completely reasonable and rational here. Let me ask this, what is special about JetBlue? If JetBlue doesn’t host the service on their data centers would they be willing to offer such a service? If a government agency can reasonably be expected to not play favorites and offer the service to anyone within reason, do you think they will be able to scale it up and offer the kind of SLAa expec…

Presumably the airline could always fall back on traditional paper/mobile boarding passes if the system goes down. It’d mean a bit of a delay, but it’s not like the whole operation would grind to a halt.

It’s true that we have no guarantee that the airlines won’t save our photos along with our ID information, but they _could_ already have been doing that for years. There just doesn’t seem to be that much reason why they would.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#98

Post by Gaelan »

amichal wrote: post #15
joezydeco wrote: post #10

I guess now we all know what the REAL ID act was about. https://www.dhs.gov/real-id

This was somewhat explicitly what REAL ID was about. Provide name age, address and photo to the feds along with any related state ID info (which often correlates easily with fed info). I would not be surprised if airport cameras already put "citizen ids" on photos for the right folks...

IDK enough about this to know who's right, but the DHS denies this:

> Is DHS trying to build a national database with all of our information?

> No. REAL ID is a national set of standards, not a national identification card. REAL ID does not create a federal database of driver license information. Each jurisdiction continues to issue its own unique license, maintains its own records, and controls who gets access to those records and under what circumstances. The purpose of REAL ID is to make our identity documents more consistent and secure.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#99

Post by craftinator »

oh_sigh wrote: post #56
craftinator wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they have your photo after they take it, and the CBP verifies for them who you are. From this information transfer, the airline can replicate the CBP database entry for each person that it takes a picture of... In the long run, they can build a facial recognition database of everyone who flies. Am I wrong about this?

No, but whether they actually are or not is another question. They could also build the same database 10 years ago by taking your picture as you scanned your boarding pass.

I haven't done international travel (by normal means), have they always taken your picture for that? Thanks for the info!

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#100

Post by markdown »

unreal37 wrote: post #92
yalogin wrote: post #60

I can bet that they have a copy of all photos on their servers. No company will be foolish enough to build a business/service that relies on another entity, much so a government organization that is not known for building highly scalable services. This is a crucial part of their process and any delays will impact their bottom line. So they have all faces with them and so does every other company. Also, just the face…

They say that the photos are discarded after being compared by the government on government servers with the original. So you're saying, they're lying. Which might be true. But you'd need to prove that.

> So you're saying, they're lying. Which might be true. But you'd need to prove that.

I've read repeatedly on HN over the past couple of months (re: Boeing and Facebook) that these corporations are required to lie about the naughty things they do. The shareholders' interest must be protected at all cost.

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