Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat

propublica.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 148 posts

Re: TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat

#81

Post by tathougies »

jontaydev wrote: post #2

Can anybody suggest an alternative program that will help me file? I know I could probably do this myself, but I prefer having software validate my returns. It seems like this is something an indie developer could create, but maybe its too complicated and too risky?

> indie developer could create, but maybe its too complicated and too risky?

The amount of liability you would take on is insane.

For the most part, I don't understand the difficulty. You can pick up a copy of the 1040 and the instructions from most public libraries. Then, you just follow the instructions. It's like reading a program. You literally just follow the instructions.

Re: TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat

#82

Post by tathougies »

neya wrote: post #47
tstrimple wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the spec. It's only 289 pages and changes almost every year. Good luck! https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p17.pdf

Thanks, so I did over-estimate my ability here. Where I live, taxation works differently, so I never assumed it would be this complex.

You also need to take into account the fact that you will need to file a tax return in the state you live in, as well as every state you work in. If you're a consultant on the East Coast and have been to 15 different states, then you'll need to file a federal return plus a return in each of the 15 states that correctly allocates whatever income you earned while working in those states.

You're not doing this in a weekend, year, or decade, by yourself.

Re: TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat

#84

Post by StephenCanis »

magnetic wrote: post #75
asdff wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there even a reason we have to file? My understanding is that if you don't file, the IRS knows about your W2 or 1099s anyway and will punish you, so what's even the point of filing yourself? Just have the IRS send a check or bill in the mail in April and end this nonsense industry.

In addition to the penalty you'd incur, the IRS is unlikely to dig into your deductions and credits with your fervor, so they will likely compute a number that is "quite suboptimal". There are also multiple ways of doing things, and picking one path may be strategic to you (if you expect more or less income in the following years). Giving up on this flexibility and its ramifications will affect your outcome negativel…

I think the general idea would be for the IRS to provide you with the completed tax return. This should be sufficient for a vast majority of people who only earn employment income.

You would then review the return and could update/file a return if you have additional deductions or business income that would not otherwise be reported to the IRS.

I believe the UK and some other European countries already have this system.

Re: TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat

#85

Post by GordonS »

danso wrote: post #14

FWIW, Turbotax/H&R's hiding of their Free File site pages was discussed here about a week ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19758126 They have since made their pages discoverable by search engines and have denied that it was intentional obfuscation. But the news in TFA is that apparently someone at (or formerly at) H&R leaked internal documents with explicit guidance: > “Do not send clients to this Web Site u…

As a Brit, I know little about the US tax system - does every citizen need to file a tax return?

In the UK, income tax is handled between employers and the government, so the vast majority of people don't need to file one.

Re: TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat

#86

Post by JohnFen »

magnetic wrote: post #75
asdff wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there even a reason we have to file? My understanding is that if you don't file, the IRS knows about your W2 or 1099s anyway and will punish you, so what's even the point of filing yourself? Just have the IRS send a check or bill in the mail in April and end this nonsense industry.

In addition to the penalty you'd incur, the IRS is unlikely to dig into your deductions and credits with your fervor, so they will likely compute a number that is "quite suboptimal". There are also multiple ways of doing things, and picking one path may be strategic to you (if you expect more or less income in the following years). Giving up on this flexibility and its ramifications will affect your outcome negativel…

> the IRS is unlikely to dig into your deductions and credits with your fervor, so they will likely compute a number that is "quite suboptimal"

Which would be fine by me, in all honesty. Let the IRS compute a "basic" return for you. If you want one that digs deep and actively minimizes your tax bill, then you can get your taxes done in one of the more traditional ways.

Re: TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat

#87

Post by cbhl »

asdff wrote: post #53
danso wrote: post #14

FWIW, Turbotax/H&R's hiding of their Free File site pages was discussed here about a week ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19758126 They have since made their pages discoverable by search engines and have denied that it was intentional obfuscation. But the news in TFA is that apparently someone at (or formerly at) H&R leaked internal documents with explicit guidance: > “Do not send clients to this Web Site u…

Is there even a reason we have to file? My understanding is that if you don't file, the IRS knows about your W2 or 1099s anyway and will punish you, so what's even the point of filing yourself? Just have the IRS send a check or bill in the mail in April and end this nonsense industry.

I highly recommend Episode #760 of Planet Money, which talks about what happened to ReadyReturn, which was a proposal to have the government send you a pre-filled tax return.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/epis...

Transcript: https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?stor...

Re: TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat

#88

Post by GordonS »

macspoofing wrote: post #77

The number of anti-TurboTax articles lately ... I get it, filing taxes could be easier but it isn't - on the scale of things to worry about, is it really that important? What about on the scale of things that government is inefficient at - does this rank in the top 1000? Again, I'm not saying we can't improve it, and I agree with calls for the IRS (and CRA) to send pre-filled forms. What I'm calling into question is…

I'm a Brit, so ab outsider - but isn't the big issue here that a private company has been able to successfully lobby to get laws changed to make it illegal for tax filing to be free?

I'm not aufait with the US tax system, so please correct me if I've got that wrong.

Re: TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat

#89

Post by Twirrim »

brianpayne2 wrote: post #59
asdff wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there even a reason we have to file? My understanding is that if you don't file, the IRS knows about your W2 or 1099s anyway and will punish you, so what's even the point of filing yourself? Just have the IRS send a check or bill in the mail in April and end this nonsense industry.

This is how many of the countries around the world treat it. You can thank the folks that lobby the government on behalf of tax prep companies for this convoluted mess we have. The more confused we are, the more money they make.

It's more complicated than that.

There are very influential anti-tax and small government think tanks that vehemently argue against it, from the perspective that it reduces oversight.

Their position is that people just won't pay much attention to how much taxes they're paying if they don't have to fill in tax paperwork themselves each year. Their position is that if you make it invisible to end users, governments will just keep creeping up that tax percentage on end users and people will just accept it.

They're not wrong as regards to visibility, in the UK where tax is PAYE (Pay As You Earn), I don't think I ever paid more than a moments glance at the P60 (but I'd often check month to month that things were in the ballpark I'd expect. I'm a little more unusual in that regard probably). In the US I've had to pay close attention.

Re: TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat

#90

Post by JohnFen »

Shivetya wrote: post #78

I am not really in the camp of blaming either of these companies or any tax filing companies for issues like this. The real blame is Congress for making such a complex tax system will all their attempts to keep their offices secure. The tax system used to have meaning but generations of politicians found they could reward and punish with it and they did so with abandon. The system should never had become so complex a…

> I am not really in the camp of blaming either of these companies or any tax filing companies for issues like this.

I am. When companies behave like scumbags, I have no problem with calling them scumbags.

I agree with you that Congress gets a heaping helping of blame as well, though.

Post reply on HN