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L.A.’s Elite on Edge as Prosecutors Pursue More Parents in Admissions Scandal

nytimes.com

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Re: L.A.’s Elite on Edge as Prosecutors Pursue More Parents in Admissions Scandal

#261

Post by barkingcat »

ForrestN wrote: post #40

I'm surprised that this scandal doesn't seem to be causing anyone to think one step further and realize that the entire premise of "elite" colleges with competitive admissions is a device for the perpetuation of inequality. We're devoting most of our advanced educational resources to helping people who would already be successful reap even more rewards. I understand the idea of meritocracy in fields with life or deat…

Many people would argue that "We're devoting most of our advanced educational resources to helping people who would already be successful reap even more rewards." is exactly the point of higher education, and serves the goal of sustaining the power structures that currently exist.

That's why "legacy admissions" even exist. If your dad or your mom went to Harvard, of course you'd want to sustain the family line and have an easy time to get admitted to Harvard too.

Re: L.A.’s Elite on Edge as Prosecutors Pursue More Parents in Admissions Scandal

#262

Post by strikelaserclaw »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #180
asdff wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screw that. If you work hard people take notice, that's it. You can go to a CC, grind hard through your classes, transfer into a school with a better network, continue to grind hard, and land the job because anyone who sees your CV will see that you are a fighter who gives a shit. Some of the richest kids in my high school paid full tuition to ivy league schools, didn't come to play school, and ended up with a scrapp…

I think there's a lot of inherent ability tied within ability to be accepted into an elite program (SAT score, etc) that I simply don't have. That doesn't help matters at all.

you can grind your way to a high SAT score (I know this personally because in a span of 2-3 months i went from mediocre to 'great' SAT scores just from grinding), you can grind your way to great grades, you can grind your way to an "elite" college. But ultimately, while those things may help you get ahead, they don't make or break you. What is needed to be successful is hard work, creativity,risk taking and luck. Your woe is me attitude is going to hold you back much more than your not attending an elite university.

Re: L.A.’s Elite on Edge as Prosecutors Pursue More Parents in Admissions Scandal

#263

Post by throwawaymath »

acct1771 wrote: post #260
throwawaymath wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that system come with any notable drawbacks of its own?

What kind of issues usually arise with choosing based on merit?

Off the top of my head I’m not sure, but my question isn’t asking about merit-based selection in the abstract. I’m asking if there are drawbacks to the specific system mentioned; that is, competitive entrance exams with anonymous review.

Re: L.A.’s Elite on Edge as Prosecutors Pursue More Parents in Admissions Scandal

#264

Post by achillesheels »

killjoywashere wrote: post #253
p1esk wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting they let in people who failed the standardized exam just to improve racial diversity?

Perhaps you're not from the US? There is a strong current of sentiment in some quarters of the US that this is exactly what should happen if society's playing field is every going to be leveled.

And that’s how bridges collapse.

Re: L.A.’s Elite on Edge as Prosecutors Pursue More Parents in Admissions Scandal

#265

Post by akhilcacharya »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #262
akhilcacharya wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a lot of inherent ability tied within ability to be accepted into an elite program (SAT score, etc) that I simply don't have. That doesn't help matters at all.

you can grind your way to a high SAT score (I know this personally because in a span of 2-3 months i went from mediocre to 'great' SAT scores just from grinding), you can grind your way to great grades, you can grind your way to an "elite" college. But ultimately, while those things may help you get ahead, they don't make or break you. What is needed to be successful is hard work, creativity,risk taking and luck. You…

I also grinded my way into an "OK" SAT score (2230 superscored, 1500/1600) but that isn't good enough to get into any of the elite schools. Worse yet all of my friends got 2250+ :(

Re: L.A.’s Elite on Edge as Prosecutors Pursue More Parents in Admissions Scandal

#266

Post by chaostheory »

darawk wrote: post #137
chaostheory wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that your idea is already reality. It's just not official. The issue is that the people caught up in this scandal aren't wealthy enough to fund a building or even a building wing, or they would just go through the more acceptable route.

Ya, it is partially reality you're right. I just think it ought to be more explicit.

Buildings, wings, and other structures are named after them. Imo it already is

Re: L.A.’s Elite on Edge as Prosecutors Pursue More Parents in Admissions Scandal

#267

Post by CydeWeys »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #214
CydeWeys wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I graduated from a state school over a decade ago. I'm working at a good company now doing things that some people would consider "cool". And I couldn't even tell you off the top of my head what university a single one of my coworkers went to. I think to some degree that you're using the school you did go to as a facile excuse to explain why you "haven't done cool stuff", when it's quite possible that that's not the…

Well, my state school (rank #50+) is quite a bit different from yours in terms of quality (rank #25 or less) for starters. I didn't get anywhere close to an 800 on my Math SAT, whereas I'm sure a lot of people at UMD CS did (and a few at my school did too!). >I think to some degree that you're using the school you did go to as a facile excuse to explain why you "haven't done cool stuff", when it's quite possible that…

Ultimate accomplishment is driven more by hard work than by innate talent. I coasted on my talent in school through most of school and came into the working world unprepared to seriously go do cool stuff for quite awhile. It wasn't until much more recently that I buckled down and got better at applying myself that I really started to see an upward trajectory. And none of this has anything to do with what school you went to for undergrad awhile ago.

I did get a 1580 though, so I feel called out :/

Re: L.A.’s Elite on Edge as Prosecutors Pursue More Parents in Admissions Scandal

#268

Post by p1esk »

killjoywashere wrote: post #253
p1esk wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting they let in people who failed the standardized exam just to improve racial diversity?

Perhaps you're not from the US? There is a strong current of sentiment in some quarters of the US that this is exactly what should happen if society's playing field is every going to be leveled.

I care more about what people on this forum think.

Re: L.A.’s Elite on Edge as Prosecutors Pursue More Parents in Admissions Scandal

#269

Post by p1esk »

websterisk wrote: post #259
shaklee3 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic diversity, yes. But Stuyvesant is 92% white and Asian, which is not racially diverse.

I'm glad this distinction got teased out. I find that it rarely does. When people discuss the merits of Diversity (capital D), the implication is that they are referring to the value of bringing in people from a variety of walks of life that might bring with them a variety and breadth of unique/disparate experiences to bear and to share. That is not often the case. People want to SEE photographic diversity. Unfortuna…

Are you saying that for example if someone's parents make over $150k/year, he better show 800 on SAT, but if the income is less than say $50k, 600 is fine?

Re: L.A.’s Elite on Edge as Prosecutors Pursue More Parents in Admissions Scandal

#270

Post by kortilla »

killjoywashere wrote: post #253
p1esk wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting they let in people who failed the standardized exam just to improve racial diversity?

Perhaps you're not from the US? There is a strong current of sentiment in some quarters of the US that this is exactly what should happen if society's playing field is every going to be leveled.

How does letting in stupid people level the playing field? I want a doctor who is qualified to be a doctor, not someone who got by because they checked a diversity box.

The reason graduating from a prestigious school is valuable is because the graduates have some expected level of quality. Letting in stupid people doesn’t do the stupid people much good, and it certainly harms the prestige of an institution that was supposed to be focused on academics.

Would you add an obese minority to the olympic track team because the minority is underrepresented?

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