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Greed and corruption blew up South Korea’s nuclear industry

technologyreview.com

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Re: Greed and corruption blew up South Korea’s nuclear industry

#11

Post by gingabriska »

tim333 wrote: post #5

Yeah there was greed and corruption but as the article says other countries have stopped too: >A similar reversal is beginning in China, until recently seen as nuclear energy’s biggest champion. There, as in South Korea, Fukushima awakened public fears and forced the government to adopt tougher safety standards, which now threaten to push the cost of nuclear power out of reach. Of the world’s other major producers of…

Is India still working on Thorium Reactor? I wonder if we'll have any major development coming from there in near time.

Re: Greed and corruption blew up South Korea’s nuclear industry

#12

Post by gingabriska »

781 wrote: post #3

Friendly PSA: do not dare to question nuclear energy safety on HN. I've seen no other subject which triggers such vitriolic responses as this, you'll be called a flat-earther anti-vaxxer luddite, you'll be told "coal kills more..." and so on. > After the Chernobyl disaster in 1986, most reactor builders had tacked on a slew of new safety features. KHNP followed suit but later realized that the astronomical cost of th…

I wonder if they stop making them because it makes a country vunerable? After all enemies of the nation have to just blow up a few reactors to cause major damage, right? But if a solar or wind or even coal plant is bombed, not much happens?

Re: Greed and corruption blew up South Korea’s nuclear industry

#13

Post by bboygravity »

tim333 wrote: post #5

Yeah there was greed and corruption but as the article says other countries have stopped too: >A similar reversal is beginning in China, until recently seen as nuclear energy’s biggest champion. There, as in South Korea, Fukushima awakened public fears and forced the government to adopt tougher safety standards, which now threaten to push the cost of nuclear power out of reach. Of the world’s other major producers of…

I call BS on "a similar reversal is beginning in China" :

"China is no stranger to nuclear power. The stated PRC goal is to raise domestic nuclear energy output from 43 gigawatts (GW) to 300 GW by 2030." https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2019/04/25/china-ent...

Re: Greed and corruption blew up South Korea’s nuclear industry

#14

Post by cjslep »

781 wrote: post #3

Friendly PSA: do not dare to question nuclear energy safety on HN. I've seen no other subject which triggers such vitriolic responses as this, you'll be called a flat-earther anti-vaxxer luddite, you'll be told "coal kills more..." and so on. > After the Chernobyl disaster in 1986, most reactor builders had tacked on a slew of new safety features. KHNP followed suit but later realized that the astronomical cost of th…

The problem is a lot of the tech advancements in the last 30 years of the field have not had a chance to play out and instead retrofits are all that's been rolled out to the existing fleet. Criticizing an entire field based on the cutting edge 60 years ago feels really unfair.

Additionally the modern US standard for safety regulation by the NRC is so stringent that anyone criticizing safety often sounds like spreading FUD if not specifically mentioning the caveat of either "outside the US" or "in the 70s".

That's not to say there are "no problems" - to the contrary, age is the biggest problem. And there simply is no preparation for the end of the nuclear powerplant age, which is coming at this rate.

Re: Greed and corruption blew up South Korea’s nuclear industry

#15

Post by dsfyu404ed »

781 wrote: post #3

Friendly PSA: do not dare to question nuclear energy safety on HN. I've seen no other subject which triggers such vitriolic responses as this, you'll be called a flat-earther anti-vaxxer luddite, you'll be told "coal kills more..." and so on. > After the Chernobyl disaster in 1986, most reactor builders had tacked on a slew of new safety features. KHNP followed suit but later realized that the astronomical cost of th…

Of course we like nuclear.

This is a board full of people who want to see hard facts, numbers and metrics. By the numbers, nuclear kills a hell of a lot less people than fossil fuels, or anything else (even when using an age adjusted metric that more accurately represents the impact of fossil fuels than the "bazillion deaths" that headlines tout). In terms of disaster potential it's on the order of hydroelectric unless for some reason you find waking up underwater to be vastly preferable to radiation poisoning.

Re: Greed and corruption blew up South Korea’s nuclear industry

#16

Post by toomuchtodo »

bboygravity wrote: post #13
tim333 wrote: post #5

Yeah there was greed and corruption but as the article says other countries have stopped too: >A similar reversal is beginning in China, until recently seen as nuclear energy’s biggest champion. There, as in South Korea, Fukushima awakened public fears and forced the government to adopt tougher safety standards, which now threaten to push the cost of nuclear power out of reach. Of the world’s other major producers of…

I call BS on "a similar reversal is beginning in China" : "China is no stranger to nuclear power. The stated PRC goal is to raise domestic nuclear energy output from 43 gigawatts (GW) to 300 GW by 2030." https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2019/04/25/china-ent...

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612564/chinas-losing-its-... (China’s losing its taste for nuclear power. That’s bad news.)

> Officially China still sees nuclear power as a must-have. But unofficially, the technology is on a death watch. Experts, including some with links to the government, see China’s nuclear sector succumbing to the same problems affecting the West: the technology is too expensive, and the public doesn’t want it.

> The 2011 meltdown at Japan’s Fukushima Daiichi plant shocked Chinese officials and made a strong impression on many Chinese citizens. A government survey in August 2017 found that only 40% of the public supported nuclear power development.

> The bigger problem is financial. Reactors built with extra safety features and more robust cooling systems to avoid a Fukushima-like disaster are expensive, while the costs of wind and solar power continue to plummet: they are now 20% cheaper than electricity from new nuclear plants in China, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance. Moreover, high construction costs make nuclear a risky investment.

China's electricity consumption growth is also rapidly slowing due to faltering economic growth.

Re: Greed and corruption blew up South Korea’s nuclear industry

#17

Post by dsfyu404ed »

gingabriska wrote: post #12
781 wrote: post #3

Friendly PSA: do not dare to question nuclear energy safety on HN. I've seen no other subject which triggers such vitriolic responses as this, you'll be called a flat-earther anti-vaxxer luddite, you'll be told "coal kills more..." and so on. > After the Chernobyl disaster in 1986, most reactor builders had tacked on a slew of new safety features. KHNP followed suit but later realized that the astronomical cost of th…

I wonder if they stop making them because it makes a country vunerable? After all enemies of the nation have to just blow up a few reactors to cause major damage, right? But if a solar or wind or even coal plant is bombed, not much happens?

Hydroelectric power is more of a vulnerability in a strategic sense. If everything downstream is flooded it's gone until it's fixed and/or rebuild. If everything is irradiated it's still useful, you just can't let people get too exposed to it.

Re: Greed and corruption blew up South Korea’s nuclear industry

#18

Post by tim333 »

gingabriska wrote: post #11
tim333 wrote: post #5

Yeah there was greed and corruption but as the article says other countries have stopped too: >A similar reversal is beginning in China, until recently seen as nuclear energy’s biggest champion. There, as in South Korea, Fukushima awakened public fears and forced the government to adopt tougher safety standards, which now threaten to push the cost of nuclear power out of reach. Of the world’s other major producers of…

Is India still working on Thorium Reactor? I wonder if we'll have any major development coming from there in near time.

It seems to be planned but a fair way in the future. https://www.powermag.com/indian-designed-nuclear-reactor-bre...

Re: Greed and corruption blew up South Korea’s nuclear industry

#19

Post by mschuster91 »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #15
781 wrote: post #3

Friendly PSA: do not dare to question nuclear energy safety on HN. I've seen no other subject which triggers such vitriolic responses as this, you'll be called a flat-earther anti-vaxxer luddite, you'll be told "coal kills more..." and so on. > After the Chernobyl disaster in 1986, most reactor builders had tacked on a slew of new safety features. KHNP followed suit but later realized that the astronomical cost of th…

Of course we like nuclear. This is a board full of people who want to see hard facts, numbers and metrics. By the numbers, nuclear kills a hell of a lot less people than fossil fuels, or anything else (even when using an age adjusted metric that more accurately represents the impact of fossil fuels than the "bazillion deaths" that headlines tout). In terms of disaster potential it's on the order of hydroelectric unle…

> In terms of disaster potential it's on the order of hydroelectric.

Water disappears. Yes, a failed dam may kill thousands to tens of thousands, but the land is generally immediately reusable without major problems as long as there is no chemical industry in the floodpath.

A nuclear reactor blowing up, though? The immediate death potential is mostly limited to the on-site staff and the "liquidators" (as evidenced in Chernobyl), but the land wide swaths around the site can remain uninhabitable for hundreds of years.

To this day, wild pigs and fungi in Bavaria (1700 km away!) have to be radiation tested (https://www.welt.de/regionales/bayern/article154639428/Bayer...) due to Cs exposure in the fallout of Chernobyl.

Re: Greed and corruption blew up South Korea’s nuclear industry

#20

Post by mefsb »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #15
781 wrote: post #3

Friendly PSA: do not dare to question nuclear energy safety on HN. I've seen no other subject which triggers such vitriolic responses as this, you'll be called a flat-earther anti-vaxxer luddite, you'll be told "coal kills more..." and so on. > After the Chernobyl disaster in 1986, most reactor builders had tacked on a slew of new safety features. KHNP followed suit but later realized that the astronomical cost of th…

Of course we like nuclear. This is a board full of people who want to see hard facts, numbers and metrics. By the numbers, nuclear kills a hell of a lot less people than fossil fuels, or anything else (even when using an age adjusted metric that more accurately represents the impact of fossil fuels than the "bazillion deaths" that headlines tout). In terms of disaster potential it's on the order of hydroelectric unle…

That's true, HN is full of purebred übermenschen and stuff.
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