Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 495 posts

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#271

Post by 55555 »

baoha wrote: post #25

While I'm not quite sure about Tesla's responsibility, I do think CA DOT has its part in this tragic accident. Had the attenuator been replaced right after the previous accident, it could have saved the driver's life. Usually I don't complain much about the gov, but just look at the construction mess they've created on 101, it's been like that for more than 4 years!

> Usually I don't complain much about the gov, but just look at the construction mess they've created on 101, it's been like that for more than 4 years!

If they finish construction then they stop getting paid.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#272

Post by kwhitefoot »

mastware wrote: post #251
natch wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do acknowledge it. You asked what to do. Apply gentle force to the accelerator pedal. And that video is from a super old software version.

> they do acknowledge it. Where has Tesla acknowledged phantom braking as a persistent issue? It has been around since 2016. > that video is from a super old software version. Looks like the video was taken a month ago. The driver had the version of software that Tesla gave him. Drivers can't choose which software version they get, so if it was old, that's on Tesla, not the driver.

You can choose not to update.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#273

Post by mastware »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #272
mastware wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they do acknowledge it. Where has Tesla acknowledged phantom braking as a persistent issue? It has been around since 2016. > that video is from a super old software version. Looks like the video was taken a month ago. The driver had the version of software that Tesla gave him. Drivers can't choose which software version they get, so if it was old, that's on Tesla, not the driver.

You can choose not to update.

The above example is about a case where a driver did not receive an update. He can't choose to download it.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#274

Post by mgoetzke »

afterburner wrote: post #261
sytelus wrote: post #254

Tesla's blog post: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/update-last-week’s-accident the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision. The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider Looks like sensors failed to see concrete divider in nice sunny weather and car slammed in to it at 70mph. Driver was obviously over confident on system's a…

Lowering the overall odds of a crash may not be enough if the few accidents happen in circumstances that a human driver would have absolutely no trouble with.

Agreed, but a number of these accidents on dividers had previous accidents on the exact same spots with human drivers. So humans do have trouble with it.

I would also like to point out, that dividers like these are dangerous in of themselves. There should never be knife-like intrusions into the driving space on a high speed road of any kind. They are also quite uncessary, a few simple left right signs that bend over when you drive over them followed by basically grass would have been a much better outcome. That being said it is still tragic.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#275

Post by mkesper »

beering wrote: post #110
bagels wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are they evading?

Other airplanes. Also the ground. But the simple autopilots (think an old Cessna) don't even try to avoid the ground for you. If you set it and forget it, you may find yourself dead on a mountainside.

You can absolutely crash a modern plane by entering altitude 0. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32063587

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#276

Post by mnl »

sytelus wrote: post #254

Tesla's blog post: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/update-last-week’s-accident the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision. The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider Looks like sensors failed to see concrete divider in nice sunny weather and car slammed in to it at 70mph. Driver was obviously over confident on system's a…

>In the US, there is one automotive fatality every 86 million miles across all vehicles from all manufacturers. For Tesla, there is one fatality, including known pedestrian fatalities, every 320 million miles in vehicles equipped with Autopilot hardware. If you are driving a Tesla equipped with Autopilot hardware, you are 3.7 times less likely to be involved in a fatal accident.

I didn't know Tesla sold motorbikes too.

Why do they still do this? What's the point if not trying to mislead the public?

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#277

Post by pfortuny »

sytelus wrote: post #254

Tesla's blog post: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/update-last-week’s-accident the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision. The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider Looks like sensors failed to see concrete divider in nice sunny weather and car slammed in to it at 70mph. Driver was obviously over confident on system's a…

That statistic is so so so misleading... It is akin to blatantly lying.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#278

Post by neotek »

That's what happens when you mislead your customers into believing your self-driving technology is far more advanced than it actually is. I hope Tesla loses this case and is forced to change their bullshit marketing before more people lose their lives.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#279

Post by hyperbovine »

sytelus wrote: post #254

Tesla's blog post: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/update-last-week’s-accident the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision. The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider Looks like sensors failed to see concrete divider in nice sunny weather and car slammed in to it at 70mph. Driver was obviously over confident on system's a…

“Equipped with” is not the same as “while using”. What’s that stat? They probably know it.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#280

Post by hvidgaard »

areoform wrote: post #96

I would like to add over here that Tesla does indeed do sensor fusion in their cars. Their Autopilot combines radar and ultrasound with vision to decide where to drive. Commentators bringing up LIDAR are jumping the gun by assuming that this scenario isn't something that these sensors wouldn't have detected in either combination or individually to spot the anomaly. The problem over here is likely to be software due t…

While we may get to the point where sensors and a form of AI can reliably drive a car, we're so far from it that we don't even know if we're heading towards the goal post.

What we need, if we want to solve the partial self driving problem right now, is not fully autonomous systems. We could start by agreeing on a way for cars to sense the road - think in the way robotic lawn mowers work where you have to bury cables. Then implement that in highways, ring roads and other long stretches of road.

Then we can agree on a way for cars to communicate and exchange relevant information.

Then we can equip cars with hardware like the Tesla have, and then use it to collect data and compare the "auto pilot" with the known working system of following a signal in the road. We still need LIDAR to reliably stop for other cars, but that is a mostly solved problem today.

Post reply on HN