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Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

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Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#231
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depth estimation is not a solved problem. Why do you think SDC companies pay so much to buy Lidar if depth estimation was solved?

Because they bet wrong. It happens.

Did that Tesla that smashed into the side of a semi truck bet correctly?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2016/07/01/understa...

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why Waymo and Cruise and such believe autonomy Level 3 or so is utterly dangerous and have intentionally skipped it entirely.

Do you think Tesla's insistence that LIDAR is useless has a part in this case? To me it's telling that everyone in the ASD game _except_ Tesla is using LIDAR.

Has Tesla actually asserted that LIDAR is “useless”? I know Musk has argued that LIDAR is not necessary, but “not necessary” and “useless” are very different things.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#233

I would like to add over here that Tesla does indeed do sensor fusion in their cars. Their Autopilot combines radar and ultrasound with vision to decide where to drive. Commentators bringing up LIDAR are jumping the gun by assuming that this scenario isn't something that these sensors wouldn't have detected in either combination or individually to spot the anomaly. The problem over here is likely to be software due t…

Your comment actually emphasizes why having a lidar is better. Cameras need neural networks to detect objects. Lidars on the other hand provide distance to all the surrounding objects. The neural networks processing the point cloud may not be able to detect what the object is, but because of the distance available in the point cloud data you will know there is something ahead. Fusing radar with camera does help but r…

Lidar is also noisy unfortunately. The input is high dimensional enough that classical tracking methods don’t work well (like for simpler radar systems) because segmentation in lidar is hard.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#234
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they bet wrong. It happens.

Did that Tesla that smashed into the side of a semi truck bet correctly? https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2016/07/01/understa...

‘Did that Tesla that smashed into the side of a semi truck bet correctly?’

That’s needlessly antagonistic and not cool.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#235

English is not my first language. I am confused by the blatant use of the term "Auto Pilot". Does it not suggest more automation than is currently feasible? Why not intelligent assist? Why is tesla/musk getting a pass here?

I think a lot of people want to be pedantic, and point out that an aeroplane's autopilot can't do all of it itself, and you therefore still need pilots to manage an airliner.

However, that's because a lot of people on HN understands how a plane's autopilot works, but most people do not. They assume it is what they think a plane's autopilot is supposed to be. Since a plane could technically take off, fly and land itself by wire, but only under the best of conditions.

At least, that's my theory.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#236

can we just make a law that the driver is responsible/liable for the car they drive, regardless how they drive it? I mean breaks failing while you are actively driving is one thing, but to completely surrender control, that is a choice.

But that's what Elon promises. He is careful never to publicly say it outright but his PR machinery wants you to believe this car can do things it literally cannot.

I really like a lot of what Tesla and Musk do, but their PR campaigns are absolutely repugnant. Like in this case where they try to make the NTSB out to be the bad guy when in reality they go completely against accepted NTSB standards in an attempt to control the narrative. It's awful.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#237

English is not my first language. I am confused by the blatant use of the term "Auto Pilot". Does it not suggest more automation than is currently feasible? Why not intelligent assist? Why is tesla/musk getting a pass here?

Autopilot in an airplane is similar. It can do a bit and make the trip easier, but it's not going to dodge a rock that happens to fall from the sky. It's a pretty simple system that really just relies on instrumentation. It's not using any fancy algorithms to make bold maneuvers. I might wager than Tesla's is doing more.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#238
What a terrible situation to be in, and what a loss for the family. My only contention is that wouldn't a person be a little apprehensive to let go of the wheel while on the highway? Maybe autopilot should be limited to city streets, but then I suppose that would defeat half of the purpose of auto-pilot.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#239
post #202
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we use a redundant geometric approach (with LiDAR) as a fallback to NNs in our perception stack. NNs can have false negatives which is unacceptable, but dealing with false positives is more manageable and safer.

Does lidar have anything to do with the redundancy?

Since a lidar uses a discrete frequency band and it's own energy source, it's much easier to process the signal for depth information (using the lag between sending and receiving a return pulse(s) and the wavelength). Arguably such a system might provide a better basis for a backup system based on modelling obstacles and their distances from the vehicle.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#240
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Straight isn’t everything. Autopilot keeps you in your lane even as the road curves. With caveats. It’s beta after all.

It its "in beta" as you say, keep it on private roads until out of beta. Sincerely, everyone else.

In beta it’s probably still better than most humans, so that stance makes no sense. We’d do better to get human drivers off the roads.
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