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Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

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Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#171

Post by CoolGuySteve »

cptskippy wrote: post #111
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #53

If the Tesla had a proximity sensor that slammed on the breaks in the last 2-3 meters, would he have survived? I ask because it's a common luxury car feature and would be easy for Tesla to implement. IIRC this crash and the semitruck crash had no evidence of the autopilot hitting the breaks according to the NTSB. Even if his velocity was only reduced by a fraction, the amount of power involved in the collision would…

AAA tests found 40% of AEB systems failed to stop a collision at 30mph and 60% at 45mph. Granted they're not causing them but those numbers still aren't great and get worse the faster you're traveling. https://www.computerworld.com/article/3111407/aaa-automatic-...

At some speed stopping the collision becomes difficult/impossible.

But in the meantime I'd vastly prefer colliding after significant breaking than not.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#172

Post by natch »

gamblor956 wrote: post #158
natch wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autopilot arguably prevents more accidents and deaths than it causes, just to keep this in perspective. So the tobacco analogies can only go so far here.

Keep this in perspective: based on the number of avoidable deaths in Tesla cars driving on Autopilot in otherwise favorable conditions, its arguable that Autopilot causes more accidents and deaths than it avoids, especially given that Autopilot is used in the lowest-risk driving conditions.

Yeah good to keep an open mind on both possibilities, but it’s overwhelmingly likely that autopilot will only get much better over time.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#173

Post by ksherlock »

SteveNuts wrote: post #91
LeoPanthera wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a pilot, but I have had flying lessons. Airplane autopilots are extremely simple. They can basically fly you in a straight line, at a fixed altitude. Tesla's autopilot is actually way more advanced than those found in airplanes.

I think you're forgetting (more than a few) important functions that an airliner autopilot can do. Off the top of my head there's auto-throttle, auto-trim, and of course, if the runway is equipped, land the plane. Also, if the pilots input a heading change, the plane will execute a 1G turn using all control surfaces so it's almost imperceptible to the passengers. I think you're oversimplifying airliner autopilot.. by…

"autopilot" covers everything from a wing leveler to what you're describing. GP's description is entirely accurate for a general aviation airplane.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#174

Post by rory096 »

SteveNuts wrote: post #91
LeoPanthera wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a pilot, but I have had flying lessons. Airplane autopilots are extremely simple. They can basically fly you in a straight line, at a fixed altitude. Tesla's autopilot is actually way more advanced than those found in airplanes.

I think you're forgetting (more than a few) important functions that an airliner autopilot can do. Off the top of my head there's auto-throttle, auto-trim, and of course, if the runway is equipped, land the plane. Also, if the pilots input a heading change, the plane will execute a 1G turn using all control surfaces so it's almost imperceptible to the passengers. I think you're oversimplifying airliner autopilot.. by…

>and of course, if the runway is equipped, land the plane.

There is certainly no such thing as an auto-land system in which the pilots are not required to be ready to take full control of the aircraft at a moment's notice. It is Level 2 in the strictest sense.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#175

Post by unityByFreedom »

codelord wrote: post #166
colordrops wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't the algorithms for extracting depth from stereo imagery already solved and thus also essentially "free"?

Depth estimation is not a solved problem. Why do you think SDC companies pay so much to buy Lidar if depth estimation was solved?

We need to define solved. Used in the Musk sense, it is solved because it's possible.

Used in the academic sense, it's not as reliable as depth from LiDAR.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#176

Post by linsomniac »

areoform wrote: post #96

I would like to add over here that Tesla does indeed do sensor fusion in their cars. Their Autopilot combines radar and ultrasound with vision to decide where to drive. Commentators bringing up LIDAR are jumping the gun by assuming that this scenario isn't something that these sensors wouldn't have detected in either combination or individually to spot the anomaly. The problem over here is likely to be software due t…

One thing to remember here is that with RADAR it is, I have read, very hard to tell a soda can from a car from a above highway sign as you are cresting a hill. So they will often filter out anything that is stopped.

I read this a few months ago and it blew my mind.

Then I read about that LIDAR sensor burning a camera sensor and thought "how safe can that be?!?"

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#177

Post by whenchamenia »

natch wrote: post #161
bdamm wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To go straight in a car, just release the steering wheel.

Straight isn’t everything. Autopilot keeps you in your lane even as the road curves. With caveats. It’s beta after all.

It its "in beta" as you say, keep it on private roads until out of beta. Sincerely, everyone else.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#178

Post by danaliv »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #65
saagarjha wrote: post #19

The problem with Tesla's "Autopilot" is that it's marketed heavily as just that: autopilot. It's good enough to work that way 99% of the time, too, which is a recipe for disaster: things that work 99% of the time but have the potential to fail catastrophically often get glossed over by humans because it's hard to keep paying attention to something that rarely fails.

I'm not a pilot, but I have had flying lessons. Airplane autopilots are extremely simple. They can basically fly you in a straight line, at a fixed altitude. Tesla's autopilot is actually way more advanced than those found in airplanes.

Autopilots run the gamut from simple wing-levelers to fully automated departures, en route navigation, arrival procedures, landings, and runway rollouts. You'd be amazed what even a light piston single-engine can pack. Just today I flew a light single with an autopilot that can do climbs, descents, level-offs, en route nav, and precision approaches (lateral nav + glideslope) down to 200' AGL. That leaves maybe two minutes of the entire flight that require hand-flying, in a box the size of a small car stereo. Pretty good stuff.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#179

Post by unityByFreedom »

natch wrote: post #106
threeseed wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So don't blame the company whose claiming that their car can "autopilot" under all conditions. Instead blame the road. Interesting take.

This is a bizarrely inaccurate mischaracterization of what Tesla has ever said about autopilot.

Yes, nevermind the video that emphasizes "the driver is doing nothing" on their tesla.com/autopilot page since 2016, or that all vehicles come with hardware for full autonomy.

There's nothing bizarre about threeseed's characterization.

https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#180

Post by loceng »

danso wrote: post #141
loceng wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should have been no delay - it is designed as a critical part of highway safety infrastructure, as the death in this situation highlights; it should have been immediately reconstructed - and hopefully this lawsuit will lead to that protocol being implemented/adhered to.

Is there a law or regulation that mandates this? The article says Caltrans claims a storm caused the delay: > "Once our Maintenance team has been notified, the Department's goal is to repair or replace damaged guardrail or crash attenuators within seven days or five business days, depending on weather. These are guidelines that our Maintenance staff follow. However, as in this case, storms can delay the fix." The del…

I'm not sure of the specifics - I would argue it should be mandated; at minimum they could have put barrels full of sand or water - whatever they use - as a stopgap.
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