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China’s vast fleet is tipping the balance in the Pacific

reuters.com

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Re: China’s vast fleet is tipping the balance in the Pacific

#61

Post by Jedi72 »

chriselles wrote: post #58
expressrunning wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"China’s Rear Adm. Luo Yuan [said] the key for Chinese domination in those hotly contested waters could lie in the sinking of two U.S. aircraft carriers. 'What the United States fears the most is taking casualties,' the admiral said, before adding that such an attack on two of the U.S. Navy’s steel behemoths would claim upwards of 10,000 lives." https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/01/04/well-see...

I do think this is hyperbole. Sinking a US aircraft carrier would be a direct attack on the sovereignty of the United States. It would e like sinking Rhode Island(slightly bigger). Retribution would be overwhelming.

Yeah nukes would fly I imagine.

Re: China’s vast fleet is tipping the balance in the Pacific

#62

Post by chriselles »

yegle wrote: post #52
myroon5 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the H in BATH?

Huawei

Bullseye:

Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent, Huawei

I think they collectively represent a far bigger long term threat to relative US superiority than some Chinese warships.

Something has to pay for that military capability.

I wonder what scared the Soviets more?

The US Navy or the Marshall Plan?

Marshall plan was $100B One Belt, One Road is multi trillion.

Use debt trap diplomacy, nudging, and a decent value proposition to get everyone on BATH

One Platform, One Network

Bye bye US Dollar.

Bye bye US Navy capability and capacity.

Re: China’s vast fleet is tipping the balance in the Pacific

#63

Post by em3rgent0rdr »

woodandsteel wrote: post #29

I don't like this development but I don't see what can be done to counter it in the long run. For over two thousand years China dominated East Asia. The American dominance since the end of WWII was due to China being flat on its back, but now that China is industrializing, it seems destined to come to an end. That's because China has a far larger population, and this is its home waters.

> "I don't see what can be done to counter it in the long run"

All the democracies of the world could ally.

Re: China’s vast fleet is tipping the balance in the Pacific

#64

Post by chriselles »

kuzehanka wrote: post #60
chriselles wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think this is hyperbole. Sinking a US aircraft carrier would be a direct attack on the sovereignty of the United States. It would e like sinking Rhode Island(slightly bigger). Retribution would be overwhelming.

Retribution with what? If the carriers are taken out the US has no way to project any kind of meaningful force in that region. Any scenario (unlikely as it may be) that involves china successfully destroying 2 US carriers would also involve their confidence in being able to destroy the rest in their coastal region.

If there is clear attribution for the sinking of a US carrier the offenders would get glassed with a Trident D5.

Re: China’s vast fleet is tipping the balance in the Pacific

#65

Post by threatofrain »

Jedi72 wrote: post #61
chriselles wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think this is hyperbole. Sinking a US aircraft carrier would be a direct attack on the sovereignty of the United States. It would e like sinking Rhode Island(slightly bigger). Retribution would be overwhelming.

Yeah nukes would fly I imagine.

I'm not sure countries would nuke each other to death over that.

Re: China’s vast fleet is tipping the balance in the Pacific

#66

Post by bsder »

expressrunning wrote: post #57
chriselles wrote: post #40

I don't see any reason to panic. In raw numbers the US Navy is technologically and numerically dominant. But China will increasingly be able to surge "mass" in terms of both technology and numbers to dominate its near shore and achieve theatre level superiority. China is building out it's military in a way that is akin to the US Reagan led 1980's. But what concerns me the most is not PLAN versus US Navy, but China/BA…

"China’s Rear Adm. Luo Yuan [said] the key for Chinese domination in those hotly contested waters could lie in the sinking of two U.S. aircraft carriers. 'What the United States fears the most is taking casualties,' the admiral said, before adding that such an attack on two of the U.S. Navy’s steel behemoths would claim upwards of 10,000 lives." https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/01/04/well-see...

> "What the United States fears the most is taking casualties"

That's also a good way to piss off rank and file Americans who normally don't give a damn.

Want the US to go cold turkey off of Chinese imports? That's how you do it.

Re: China’s vast fleet is tipping the balance in the Pacific

#67

Post by sbjustin »

kuzehanka wrote: post #60
chriselles wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think this is hyperbole. Sinking a US aircraft carrier would be a direct attack on the sovereignty of the United States. It would e like sinking Rhode Island(slightly bigger). Retribution would be overwhelming.

Retribution with what? If the carriers are taken out the US has no way to project any kind of meaningful force in that region. Any scenario (unlikely as it may be) that involves china successfully destroying 2 US carriers would also involve their confidence in being able to destroy the rest in their coastal region.

We have 10 carriers and air bases all over the world...

Re: China’s vast fleet is tipping the balance in the Pacific

#68

Post by AYBABTME »

kuzehanka wrote: post #60
chriselles wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think this is hyperbole. Sinking a US aircraft carrier would be a direct attack on the sovereignty of the United States. It would e like sinking Rhode Island(slightly bigger). Retribution would be overwhelming.

Retribution with what? If the carriers are taken out the US has no way to project any kind of meaningful force in that region. Any scenario (unlikely as it may be) that involves china successfully destroying 2 US carriers would also involve their confidence in being able to destroy the rest in their coastal region.

That's untrue, plenty of bases in the area, and plenty of airdrop capabilities.

Re: China’s vast fleet is tipping the balance in the Pacific

#69

Post by shdh »

chriselles wrote: post #64
kuzehanka wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Retribution with what? If the carriers are taken out the US has no way to project any kind of meaningful force in that region. Any scenario (unlikely as it may be) that involves china successfully destroying 2 US carriers would also involve their confidence in being able to destroy the rest in their coastal region.

If there is clear attribution for the sinking of a US carrier the offenders would get glassed with a Trident D5.

Mutually assured destruction.

The initial attack likely never takes place.

Re: China’s vast fleet is tipping the balance in the Pacific

#70

Post by king_magic »

stcredzero wrote: post #20
i_am_proteus wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bear in mind, though, that the US Navy operates in the Pacific, Atlantic, and Indian Oceans, as well as the Mediterranean and occasionally Arctic. The US Navy often operates far from US naval port facilities. The Chinese fleet is concentrated almost entirely in the Western Pacific, near its naval ports.

The US faces many of the logistic and economic challenges the British faced when they ruled the world's oceans.

Except it’s also 100 years later, and we’re much, much better at it than the British ever were.
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