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Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

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Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#31

Post by jonas21 »

Jonanin wrote: post #7

That news about this case is being spread everywhere irks me a bit, because people aren't considering the actual circumstances of the accident. Excerpt from the article: "According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location. The crash happened on a clear day wit…

That's an excerpt from a statement made by Tesla that is quoted in the article. Tesla was reprimanded by the NTSB for making statements like this during the investigation process.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#32

Post by codetrotter »

yumraj wrote: post #17
Jonanin wrote: post #7

That news about this case is being spread everywhere irks me a bit, because people aren't considering the actual circumstances of the accident. Excerpt from the article: "According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location. The crash happened on a clear day wit…

Your argument sounds the same as: people who smoke know that cigarettes cause cancer, in fact it says that on the pack, still they decide to smoke. So, if they get cancer and die it's their fault not the cigarette manufacturer's.

Knowingly manufacturing a product that has such a high risk of causing cancer as do cigarettes is certainly unethical in my opinion. But today when that risk is known to consumers (as opposed to in the past when it was not) it is ultimately the responsibility of anyone that decide to start smoking today when doing so ends up giving them cancer.

I say this as someone who is a low volume consumer of another tobacco product (Swedish snus) that is also bad for my health and which also has a risk of giving me a form of cancer (oral cancer). I am betting on the fact that I keep my use of the product on the low end to save me. But I accept the fact that I am to blame if this ends up giving me cancer.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#33

Post by slg »

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #27
Jonanin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair enough, but the problem I have is the way this event is being portrayed in news and social media. The implication everywhere is that autopilot just unexpectedly swerved into a wall and there was nothing the driver could have done. It actually was expected, and any reasonable driver could have easily prevented it, because it had almost happened so many times in the past.

This is the issue with wireless updates on any vehicle. What if tomorrow Autopilot is updated and it begins occurring 2 miles down the road?

On the flip side, Tesla fixed this specific issue (and apparently unfixed it again) with over the air updates. If this was another manufacturer the cars would need to be recalled and it would likely be years before a fix was rolled out to all vehicles and therefore lives would continue to be in danger. So it isn't like over the air updates are inherently bad. The reality of the situation is that there almost certainly needs to be some level of government oversight over this type of thing.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#34

Post by gooseus »

It seems like a (relatively) trivial addition to the Autopilot system would be to allow the drive to tell the car when it has made a mistake and if Autopilot(s) consistently make mistakes in the same area then Autopilot should give a specific warning, or force a disengagement, when it detects that it is approaching that area.

I can't imagine that this isn't already a thing or that someone at Tesla hasn't come up with this... am I missing something here?

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#35

Post by rockinghigh »

Jonanin wrote: post #24
js2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah but he’s not the one suing. The family lost him and probably isn’t thinking rationally. Or, maybe they are thinking rationally. Lawyers probably took the suit on contingency right?

That's fair enough, but the problem I have is the way this event is being portrayed in news and social media. The implication everywhere is that autopilot just unexpectedly swerved into a wall and there was nothing the driver could have done. It actually was expected, and any reasonable driver could have easily prevented it, because it had almost happened so many times in the past.

> any reasonable driver could have easily prevented it,

Not really. The crash attenuator was missing because someone else crashed into it. That highway exit is ridiculous. As for faults, there is obviously fault on both sides. The driver should have been more alert and the "autonomous system" should have detected the obstacle and slowed down the vehicle before hitting the guard.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#36

Post by matz1 »

yumraj wrote: post #17
Jonanin wrote: post #7

That news about this case is being spread everywhere irks me a bit, because people aren't considering the actual circumstances of the accident. Excerpt from the article: "According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location. The crash happened on a clear day wit…

Your argument sounds the same as: people who smoke know that cigarettes cause cancer, in fact it says that on the pack, still they decide to smoke. So, if they get cancer and die it's their fault not the cigarette manufacturer's.

Yes. What is your point ?

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#37

Post by losteric »

Jonanin wrote: post #7

That news about this case is being spread everywhere irks me a bit, because people aren't considering the actual circumstances of the accident. Excerpt from the article: "According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location. The crash happened on a clear day wit…

These articles take off because the general (non-Tesla-owning) public believes "autopilot" is full autonomy and Tesla is covering something up.

If this was branded as a "driving assistant", people wouldn't bat an eye when the driver failed to maintain control.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#38

Post by lunulata »

Living around silicon valley with all the tesla drivers here, you learn real fast it makes for some of the worst drivers out on the road. Regularly see them running red lights and just generally not paying attention. They crutch too hard on the auto-pilot and dick around on their smart phones, which is probably exactly what this guy was doing. It's bad for tesla drivers and it's bad for drivers around them. Hope Tesla loses this lawsuit just because of that.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#39

Post by patejam »

jimmaswell wrote: post #14
modzu wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you cant expect the human driver to be ready to take over autopilot in any meaningful way. if the driver is alert enough to the conditions and physically ready at the appropriate controls to do that, then they are already driving . still, despite it not being based on science, but legal reasons, companies pretend that humans can "take over" when alerted to. maybe a lawsuit will change that idiocy.

A few people dying of their own irresponsibility does not warrant ruining it for the rest of us.

There are other people on the road, it's not just the drivers that are impacted by this.

Calling it "Autopilot" is what's irresponsible.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#40

Post by protomyth »

So, in a traditional embedded system, discovery can reveal the source code to help determine what went wrong (e.g. divide by zero error in x-ray machine). What are the lawyers going to get when they start looking into the Tesla's autopilot software?
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