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Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

nytimes.com

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Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#91

Post by rayiner »

mercer wrote: post #89
cageface wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most estimates put it at around 15%, not 5. Stopping climate change is going to require action on all these vectors, and diet is one of the easiest to change. It also has knock on effects like clear cutting rainforest to plant crops to feed to cows. On top of that it’s just cruel and unnecessary to go on eating so much meat.

The main argument in favor changing diet, to me, is the potential psychological and social effects. When something you do multiple times a day is different from what you used to do, and what many others around you do, it stays active in your thoughts and might trigger other, more meaningful activity. I don't know if this is actually true, but anecdotally at least it seems to be. The people around me who seem to be mo…

> The people around me who seem to be most active when it comes to the topic of climate change also tend to be vegetarians or vegans.

What do these people do? Unless they're working on renewables technology or carbon-capture technology, they're not doing anything useful. That's just how the math shakes out. The climate problem is so huge that only engineers and scientists can help us now. Everything else is just putting on one of those "raising awareness of breast cancer" ribbons.

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#92

Post by agentultra »

vram22 wrote: post #86
agentultra wrote: post #28

This is a great article. Do I have to go vegan? No. But it would have the biggest impact if you did. Is organic farming the answer? No. It tends to use more land for less output (although maybe the health-foodies could get off the No-GMO bandwagon). I also appreciate that the authors recognize that for some people living in certain cultures and climates _have_ to eat meat and there's no shame in that. The bulk of the…

>Is organic farming the answer? No. It tends to use more land for less output Use of land per unit of output (or vice versa) is not the only important metric though, not by a long chalk. A more holistic approach is needed [1], otherwise it is back to the same as the issues that the OP attempts to address. [1] An approach that considers equally important things like effects of pesticides, other negative effects of non…

I agree and the article was more nuanced than that. I think organic farming is great and maybe needs GMO in order to thrive, sustainably, into the climate/soil future.

It's a deep topic and there are no simple answers, thanks for pointing that out!

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#93

Post by mercer »

rayiner wrote: post #91
mercer wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main argument in favor changing diet, to me, is the potential psychological and social effects. When something you do multiple times a day is different from what you used to do, and what many others around you do, it stays active in your thoughts and might trigger other, more meaningful activity. I don't know if this is actually true, but anecdotally at least it seems to be. The people around me who seem to be mo…

> The people around me who seem to be most active when it comes to the topic of climate change also tend to be vegetarians or vegans. What do these people do? Unless they're working on renewables technology or carbon-capture technology, they're not doing anything useful. That's just how the math shakes out. The climate problem is so huge that only engineers and scientists can help us now. Everything else is just putt…

Oh yeah, quite possible.

I imagine some of them could be working on the things you mention, but most of them don't. But that's particular to my current network.

But some of them do have strong relationships with people who play some meaningful role in the whole climate issue. At least two of these 'people around me' have siblings that occupy high-level engineering/management roles in some of the most impactful (and worst) companies.

It's not much, maybe, but perhaps it's not meaningless.

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#94

Post by lowken10 »

Food production has zero to do with climate change! Cow farts have zero to do with climate change!

If you think otherwise you are an idiot. There is zero scientific evidence that shows a link between farm animals and climate change. Zero!!!

All this reminds me of a great Winston Churchhill quote...

"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#95

Post by tomjen3 »

alex_duf wrote: post #16
malvosenior wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going vegan is simply the right thing to do at this point. I'm sorry but no. Your diet is a personal choice and no amount of shaming is going to change that. Do you travel internationally? Own a car? Do any other of a million things that have an impact on the climate but also constitute living your life? It's great to put this information out there but telling people that your choices are "simply the right thing to…

I can see why being "preached at" is being annoying, but the fact have been here long enough, yet a large percentage of the population haven't tried to change their diet. If public shaming and social clout isn't involved, no one will.

Public shaming cuts both ways, I can as easily shame you for being a vegan soy boy as you can shame me for eating meat.

Gw is unsolvable without better technology, or facism.

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#97

Post by andbberger »

misiti3780 wrote: post #59

I know this isnt going to be a popular opinion here, but I'm going to say it anyways -- we are simply not going eat our away out of this climate change problem, and we shouldnt even try, we should focus the efforts in other places Here is the current breakdown of the world's emissions as of 2018: 1. heavy industry (29 percent) 2. buildings (18 percent) 3. transport (15 percent) 4. land-use change (15 percent) 5. the…

Why shouldn't try to improve our diets, in addition to everything else?

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#98

Post by fishstick2000 »

dustinmoris wrote: post #90

I have turned pescatarian a while ago for no other reason because I don't find it very natural to eat large amounts of meat. In the last five years or so I've been strongly of the belief that meat, especially meat like beef, should get taxed so highly that it essentially becomes a luxurious good which families can only enjoy once every so often and not 3-5 times a day. First people will be extremely upset and call it…

Incredibly disingenuous or just ignorant to claim there are no health benefits to eating meat

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#99

Post by malvosenior »

codezero wrote: post #41
malvosenior wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None. I don't have any plans to be a vegan so don't want anyone telling me to do it.

I'm vegetarian and aspire to have a plant-based diet, but I recognize the difficulty in such a diet in a lot of places. With that said, I'm curious why you don't want anyone trying to convince you to change your mind? I don't want to eat meat, and I don't plan to, but if someone had some reasoned arguments as to why I should, I'd listen and decide for myself. I'm not you though, but I am curious what reason(s) you ha…

I love meat and many meat dishes. I would never stop eating them because they're a major part of my life. The question of if I want to change my diet is not one I'm asking myself. It seems weird to have to "debate" that with people. No amount of shaming is going to make me stop loving a good reuben sandwich or a carnitas burrito. I have no problem with other people eating what they choose but don't need to hear other people's thoughts on what I eat.

Think of it like pushy religious advocates. If they come to your door once and knock and you tell them to go way, that's mildly annoying but understandable. If they keep coming back every day saying that you "must" debate them, then that starts to get really annoying, really fast.

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#100

Post by specialist »

rayiner wrote: post #78
agentultra wrote: post #28

This is a great article. Do I have to go vegan? No. But it would have the biggest impact if you did. Is organic farming the answer? No. It tends to use more land for less output (although maybe the health-foodies could get off the No-GMO bandwagon). I also appreciate that the authors recognize that for some people living in certain cultures and climates _have_ to eat meat and there's no shame in that. The bulk of the…

This is an awful article because it doesn't put numbers on the various alternatives. Without hard numbers, the discussion of alternatives is meaningless. Even going from an average diet to fully vegan will only reduce your food-related emissions by 40%, which only accounts for about 12.5% of your carbon emissions to begin with (in the US): http://www.greeneatz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/foods-ca... . Cutting your…

I agree with both you and agentultra. I'm struggling to understand why. You're correct on the comparative impact. But I've long believed psychology is important too.

We lefties are frequently criticized, for better or worse, for hypocrisy. Maybe personal pro forma efforts will remove that rhetorical angle of attack.

Also, there's got to be some priming benefits, an opportunity to educate about the larger issues. However, my faith in this strategy has been rocked by failures (betrayal) of the whole recycling charade, which has served to alienate people and likely reduced future engagement.

I wish I knew what is best. Right now, I don't even have an opinion, just more questions.

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