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Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

nytimes.com

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Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#41

Post by codezero »

malvosenior wrote: post #17
astazangasta wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it sucks to be told you are a sinner. What language would you suggest people use in order to encourage people to be vegan? Suggesting it is the moral choice seems like a good method to me. Then again i am inclined to seek the moral and respond to guilt. You seem more concerned about not being condescended to; for such an individual, what language would you find cogent?

None. I don't have any plans to be a vegan so don't want anyone telling me to do it.

I'm vegetarian and aspire to have a plant-based diet, but I recognize the difficulty in such a diet in a lot of places.

With that said, I'm curious why you don't want anyone trying to convince you to change your mind?

I don't want to eat meat, and I don't plan to, but if someone had some reasoned arguments as to why I should, I'd listen and decide for myself. I'm not you though, but I am curious what reason(s) you have for not being open to discussing it. I'm also curious why you phrased it as someone telling you to do it, rather than discussing it.

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#42

Post by beat »

When talking about the potency of methane as a greenhouse gas, lifespan of about 20 years. CO2, on the other hand, has a lifespan of around 100 years.

Interestingly, rice agriculture generates about as much methane as livestock, and burning biomass (wood) and landfills each generate about half as much methane as livestock.

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#43

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

Although this is not made clear in the article, the highest amount of greenhouse gasses are released by energy production and industry, which, combined, account for about half of all emissions [1].

So what this article is saying is that I should consider going vegan or reducing the (already meager) amount of meat in my diet so that fossil fuel companies can keep burning fossil fuels and don't have to get off their butt to develop greener alternatives, and so that industry can continue producing useless capitalist crap that nobody needs.

To take it even further, this article is suggesting I restrict my options so that others can continue profiting from the destruction of the environment.

Personally I don't drive and I don't fly. I don't even own a car. I go everywhere by train or bus and on foot. I contribute to greenhouse gasses much less than many vegans. And I'm very tired of hearing people saying I should reduce the amount of meat I eat because it's destroying the environment. Food is necessary- driving cars is not.

___________

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas#/media/File:Gre...

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#44

Post by belorn »

It is not as simply to reduce climate impact based on what you eat. The data this article use is based on averages, and as in every industry the lowest standard it drastically different from the top and carry more quantity.

On the very top you got meat produced that actively helps the environment. Highland cattle that keeps national reservations open comes to mind. There is also overpopulated and invasive species. At the bottom you got cattle who live their whole life inside a barn and get feed from deforested jungle farms, using unimaginable amount of pesticide and antibiotics.

It is also important to remember that diet is far from the most effective personal choice to make when it come to climate change (https://phys.org/news/2017-07-effective-individual-tackle-cl...). It is ranked 6th. Driving to buy produce at a farmer several miles out of town is likely to produce more C02 than biking down to eat a burger. An electric car might help, through it depend if the electricity is made from coal or wind.

The article gives some averages and for people who don't want to think about the climate and want a simple guide the article provides. However if you care about the topic and can spend the energy to go deeper and consider all facets then it is much better to make informed decision by digging deeper.

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#45

Post by anarchimedes »

epistasis wrote: post #33
anarchimedes wrote: post #31

I'm curious how the stated article jives with the following research by the USDA [0] into it's current resource and greenhouse emissions and the work done by Bjorn Lomberg and team that showed a modest 2% reduction in total CI globally [1] if the entire population switched to a vegetarian diet. [0] https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDAARS/bulletins/2... [1] https://twitter.com/BjornLomborg/status/105833349162…

Bjorn Lomborg's analyses are well known for being highly motivated to push contrarian agendas, and shouldn't be taken as evidence of any sort of honest analysis. His thoughts are only useful to drive out of the box thinking, and should not be taken earnestly in any way. This would be like asking "but how does all this new molecular biology work showing how smoking causes mutations that drive lung cancer square with R…

Would you kindly provide evidence to the contrary and not just to what Bjorn has done but also the USDA?

And no, it is nothing like Fisher's contrarianism to the smoking issue. Both links acknowledged that the current global diet has an impact on CI, but tries to find the most likely size of the effect.

I ask because the science and evidence behind this stuff is complicated, and much of what is being said has a huge element of alarmism. I don't doubt that our current diets have impacts on CI, but I would like to see thoughtful analysis determining the effects. I'm sincerely asking this in good faith

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#46

Post by jniedrauer »

bobajeff wrote: post #36
jamesgagan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the evidence seems to indicate that the less meat and dairy one eats, the healthier they are. I also used to believe vegans were unhealty until I did some research. As a personal anecdote, I've been vegan for about 4 years now and my health is better than ever.

Some evidence seems to suggest that it could negatively affect brain health. (See deficiencies in B12, Iron and Zinc.) I've even read anecdotes of people that have gotten diabetes going all wholefoods vegetarian. My belief is that our biology is complex and specific to each individual to the point where we can't all share the same diet and expect the same effects on our bodies.

> I've even read anecdotes of people that have gotten diabetes going all wholefoods vegetarian.

There can be a problem with reducing fat and protein significantly while using carbs for the majority of caloric intake. This can lead to diabetes. But you can do this on an omnivore diet as well.

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#47

Post by jniedrauer »

jamesgagan wrote: post #2

I know there will be comments saying that individual action is not enough to combat climate change, or that it's too late for that, but when governments are so slow to act and corporations will only change when their bottom line is at stake, it is left to individuals to take action. Going vegan is simply the right thing to do at this point.

Personally I think that individual action is largely futile. I've also stopped eating meat. I want to be able to look gen Z in the eye when I'm old and say I did everything I could.

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#48

Post by epistasis »

anarchimedes wrote: post #45
epistasis wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bjorn Lomborg's analyses are well known for being highly motivated to push contrarian agendas, and shouldn't be taken as evidence of any sort of honest analysis. His thoughts are only useful to drive out of the box thinking, and should not be taken earnestly in any way. This would be like asking "but how does all this new molecular biology work showing how smoking causes mutations that drive lung cancer square with R…

Would you kindly provide evidence to the contrary and not just to what Bjorn has done but also the USDA? And no, it is nothing like Fisher's contrarianism to the smoking issue. Both links acknowledged that the current global diet has an impact on CI, but tries to find the most likely size of the effect. I ask because the science and evidence behind this stuff is complicated, and much of what is being said has a huge…

> much of what is being said has a huge element of alarmism.

Could you kindly provide any evidence for this sort of claim?

And could you provide any sort of evidence that we should even use effort to examine Lomborg's claims, much less try to use it as what we compare the USDA to? He has a history of being wrong, and ignoring that history in order to "stop alarmism" seems like an equal sin to any potential alarmism.

Outlier analyses that have a history of producing incorrect analyses should not be taken as a gold standard of anything.

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#49

Post by alex_duf »

malvosenior wrote: post #20
alex_duf wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see why being "preached at" is being annoying, but the fact have been here long enough, yet a large percentage of the population haven't tried to change their diet. If public shaming and social clout isn't involved, no one will.

Or we can accept people will keep their diet and go on with our lives. Just because something impacts the environment (literally everything does this btw) doesn't mean that we need to stop doing it. The climate will always be changing and humans will always have some impact on it. We need to accept that as fact.

That's pretty much saying "I put my personal food taste before the safety of the future generations.". Don't get me wrong, you're free to have this opinion but it's probably a good thing to frame it like that to fully understand the choice.

There's "climate is changing" and massive population migration, uninhabitable areas, unreliable food and water supply, sea level threatening entire cities and probably more.

The fact that "literally everything we do" impact the environment isn't a valid argument. It does seem daunting, but by looking at each cause individually and acting on it, it looks less discouraging.

I'm far from perfect, I'm not even vegan and I still fly quite a bit, I just came to understand I had to make progressive changes to my behaviour or the human existence we currently have is severely threatened,

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#50

Post by npsimons »

yfdrea wrote: post #30

I switched to a plant based diet last year after reading similar articles on climate change and was surprised to see an additional set of benefits. I feel a lot healthier, my skin is clearer (struggled with frequent untamable breakouts), I save money, etc. Diet is a very individualized thing, so don't dramatically overhaul your entire lifestyle based off what a random stranger says on the Internet but if you haven't…

> I feel a lot healthier

This was the clincher for me. I listened to the audiobook "How Not to Die" by Dr. Greger and was convinced of the common sense that eating plant based whole foods is the way to be healthier. The lowered cost and lowered impact on the environment are just icing on the cake. If eating meat was better for me, I'd still do it. The science done so far seems to suggest that a whole food plant based diet is the healthiest diet.

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