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Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

nytimes.com

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Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#21

Post by marricks »

perfunctory wrote: post #12
malvosenior wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going vegan is simply the right thing to do at this point. I'm sorry but no. Your diet is a personal choice and no amount of shaming is going to change that. Do you travel internationally? Own a car? Do any other of a million things that have an impact on the climate but also constitute living your life? It's great to put this information out there but telling people that your choices are "simply the right thing to…

> Your diet is a personal choice Not any more > and no amount of shaming is going to change that. It did change it for me. I haven’t gone vegan all the way but I did change my diet > Do you travel internationally? Less and less and preferably by train > Own a car? Yes, and I stopped driving it. > since no one likes to be preached at. I must be an exception then.

“Shaming” is what got me and my girlfriend to change, one pointed conversation 3 months later we went vegetarian than a year later vegan.

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#22

Post by mAEStro-paNDa »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #14
jamesgagan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this attitude is popular because it gives people an excuse to not change their lifestyle.

I feel like the other attitude is popular because it gives people an excuse not to exercise real activism - propositions, getting out the vote, public education etc. Just eat a veggie-burger now and then and say "well I tried".

In addition, it's just not the appropriate or proportional response, considering the contributors [0]. Individual action alone is certainly not enough. Systemic change is crucial.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10...

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#23

Post by marricks »

artimaeis wrote: post #11
malvosenior wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going vegan is simply the right thing to do at this point. I'm sorry but no. Your diet is a personal choice and no amount of shaming is going to change that. Do you travel internationally? Own a car? Do any other of a million things that have an impact on the climate but also constitute living your life? It's great to put this information out there but telling people that your choices are "simply the right thing to…

Isn't there a level of condescension and or proselytizing that always goes on around environmental conversations? Reduce, reuse, recycle - if you do it, good! If you don't, bad! Travel less, don't own anything. How can we frame these sorts of ideals so that people don't feel attacked? There _is_ a climate crisis. At least some level of that crisis is driven by consumer demands. We should be able to advocate a change…

I think it’s their problem and not ours. No one ever wants to change and no matter how nicely you put things they’ll always feel attacked. It’s just how it work, ultimately no one really wants to change so they need to be pushed.

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#24

Post by Falling3 »

malvosenior wrote: post #6
jamesgagan wrote: post #2

I know there will be comments saying that individual action is not enough to combat climate change, or that it's too late for that, but when governments are so slow to act and corporations will only change when their bottom line is at stake, it is left to individuals to take action. Going vegan is simply the right thing to do at this point.

> Going vegan is simply the right thing to do at this point. I'm sorry but no. Your diet is a personal choice and no amount of shaming is going to change that. Do you travel internationally? Own a car? Do any other of a million things that have an impact on the climate but also constitute living your life? It's great to put this information out there but telling people that your choices are "simply the right thing to…

> Your diet is a personal choice and no amount of shaming is going to change that.

I guess that depends on how you define personal choice. Climate change has certain changed the calculus, but diet was never merely a personal choice when it required the death of other individuals.

As for the shaming, I'm not in favor of that because it does not seem to be an effective way of bringing about change. But simply having these kinds of discussions cannot fairly be called shaming. That's a cop-out to avoid meaningful discourse.

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#25

Post by malvosenior »

artimaeis wrote: post #11
malvosenior wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going vegan is simply the right thing to do at this point. I'm sorry but no. Your diet is a personal choice and no amount of shaming is going to change that. Do you travel internationally? Own a car? Do any other of a million things that have an impact on the climate but also constitute living your life? It's great to put this information out there but telling people that your choices are "simply the right thing to…

Isn't there a level of condescension and or proselytizing that always goes on around environmental conversations? Reduce, reuse, recycle - if you do it, good! If you don't, bad! Travel less, don't own anything. How can we frame these sorts of ideals so that people don't feel attacked? There _is_ a climate crisis. At least some level of that crisis is driven by consumer demands. We should be able to advocate a change…

I think the original post did a good job of this. All you can do is present the information and let people decide for themselves.

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#26

Post by jamesgagan »

leekyle333 wrote: post #19
jamesgagan wrote: post #2

I know there will be comments saying that individual action is not enough to combat climate change, or that it's too late for that, but when governments are so slow to act and corporations will only change when their bottom line is at stake, it is left to individuals to take action. Going vegan is simply the right thing to do at this point.

Or maybe you should just eat properly grazed live stock, might be a lot better than going vegan. https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_worl...

This is discussed in the article: "Some scientists have suggested that grass-finished beef, if managed properly, can be a more sustainable option: As the cattle graze, they stimulate grass to grow deep roots and pull more carbon into the soil, helping to offset the cows’ climate impact. But, on the flip side, grass-finished cattle also take longer to reach slaughter weight, which means they spend more time burping up methane into the atmosphere. Because of this, some studies have suggested that grass-fed beef can actually be worse for the climate over all, though the debate about this continues to rage.

For now, it’s hard to say with confidence that grass-fed beef is consistently more climate-friendly than conventional beef."

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#27

Post by dalore »

jamesgagan wrote: post #2

I know there will be comments saying that individual action is not enough to combat climate change, or that it's too late for that, but when governments are so slow to act and corporations will only change when their bottom line is at stake, it is left to individuals to take action. Going vegan is simply the right thing to do at this point.

Giving up our growing space to grow lots of monocultured vegetables will be worse for the climate.

The co2 emissions from cows aren't the problem. Factory farming yes is a problem, but if cows are put on grass that grass is a co2 sink and gives off far less.

If you grow an acre of soy it's just as bad as it isn't sustainable.

Also the fact that being vegan has serious health consequences and animals provide far more nutrition.

The answer isn't going vegan at all but to have sustainable farming practices where animals and plants are grown together in a regenerative process.

Grass is one of the best crops to grow. It's a great carbon sink, and takes away methane. Builds its own fertility so no need for artificial fertilizers. No management, machines, pesticides etc. Grows everywhere. We just can't eat it. But ruminants (like cows/sheep/etc) can. They have a digestive system for it. They turn grass into meat and milk. Meat and milk that don't need storage until you need to harvest it. It also tastes better.

We used to have far loads more bison roaming the earth. But they didn't cause climate change because they ate grass. When you factor in the grass it's a net positive and not a negative like the article claims.

These studies like to look at things in a bubble, but the problem is far more complex than that.

Converting pasture to arable land to grow more plant based food will make the climate situation worse. You will reduce these carbon/methane sinks. You will need to fertilize and harvest the soil. Fetalization itself reduces the carbon/methane sink capabilities.

Eating beef can actually be a very sustainable option. In many cases, pasture-reared beef actually shows a carbon-equivalent net gain when carbon sequestration is taken into account.

Edit: Perhaps a comment or 2 would be nice on why people don't agree or why I might be wrong. Happy to read up and learn

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#28

Post by agentultra »

This is a great article. Do I have to go vegan? No. But it would have the biggest impact if you did. Is organic farming the answer? No. It tends to use more land for less output (although maybe the health-foodies could get off the No-GMO bandwagon). I also appreciate that the authors recognize that for some people living in certain cultures and climates _have_ to eat meat and there's no shame in that.

The bulk of the reduction can definitely come from rich, affluent nations and have the biggest impact.

Articles like this seem important. Hiding the fact that meat/dairy production is such a huge factor in climate change hurts people more than it helps. When we all start to wonder why it isn't getting any better we need to know that there are ways we can do our part. Even if they're small things!

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#29

Post by hkyeti »

dalore wrote: post #27
jamesgagan wrote: post #2

I know there will be comments saying that individual action is not enough to combat climate change, or that it's too late for that, but when governments are so slow to act and corporations will only change when their bottom line is at stake, it is left to individuals to take action. Going vegan is simply the right thing to do at this point.

Giving up our growing space to grow lots of monocultured vegetables will be worse for the climate. The co2 emissions from cows aren't the problem. Factory farming yes is a problem, but if cows are put on grass that grass is a co2 sink and gives off far less. If you grow an acre of soy it's just as bad as it isn't sustainable. Also the fact that being vegan has serious health consequences and animals provide far more…

This is disproven by Oxford scientists. Grass fed beef is worse for climate change than CAFO beef. Look it up

Re: Questions About Food and Climate Change, Answered

#30

Post by yfdrea »

I switched to a plant based diet last year after reading similar articles on climate change and was surprised to see an additional set of benefits. I feel a lot healthier, my skin is clearer (struggled with frequent untamable breakouts), I save money, etc. Diet is a very individualized thing, so don't dramatically overhaul your entire lifestyle based off what a random stranger says on the Internet but if you haven't tried a plant-based diet you may be pleasantly surprised like I was. I'll still eat meat if it's served to me but when I am eating out and cooking I go veggie.
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