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Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#11

Post by draw_down »

sandworm101 wrote: post #5

I don't see the problem. Extended detention and repeated interrogation is normal around the world. Visit Rikers island and look at how long people are held there prior to trial (years). The focus on confessions isn't a Japanese thing. Look at how many americans/canadians/brits/auzzis agree plea deals, a form of confession. Repeated questioning isn't torture. In the USA it is true that police have to stop asking quest…

> Are we only talking about these Japanese cases because they involve rich people?

That would be my understanding, yes.

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#12

Post by mc32 »

GuiA wrote: post #8
ttul wrote: post #3

A hundred years ago, Japan was a feudal society. Apparently, some of the old traditions live on.

The feudal era in Japan is considered to have ended with the shogunate, ie the Meiji restoration (1868).

To be fair to the OP I don’t think they were invoking the end of the shogunate but rather that because it had ended within memory of the defeat to the allies, these vestiges were relevant and were (and continue) to be in the conscience of Japanese society.

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#13

Post by fjsolwmv »

sandworm101 wrote: post #5

I don't see the problem. Extended detention and repeated interrogation is normal around the world. Visit Rikers island and look at how long people are held there prior to trial (years). The focus on confessions isn't a Japanese thing. Look at how many americans/canadians/brits/auzzis agree plea deals, a form of confession. Repeated questioning isn't torture. In the USA it is true that police have to stop asking quest…

Saying you don't see a problem is absolutely disgusting.

The Rikers cases are miscarriages of justice and the two famous cases led to changes in the law to prevent some future horrors.

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#14

Post by draw_down »

gambiting wrote: post #9
sandworm101 wrote: post #5

I don't see the problem. Extended detention and repeated interrogation is normal around the world. Visit Rikers island and look at how long people are held there prior to trial (years). The focus on confessions isn't a Japanese thing. Look at how many americans/canadians/brits/auzzis agree plea deals, a form of confession. Repeated questioning isn't torture. In the USA it is true that police have to stop asking quest…

>>I don't see the problem. Extended detention and repeated interrogation is normal around the world. Just because something is normalised doesn't mean it's ok, I think we can both agree on that?

Maybe it's just me, but when a widespread injustice is only being discussed in the context of it happening to a rich and/or powerful person, that's a pretty strong hint we're not talking about the actual injustice.

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#15

Post by mafribe »

deugtniet wrote: post #10
mafribe wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside, not relevant to the article discussed here. constitution that was essentially written by Americans I cannot speak about Japan, but that's historically false for Germany. If you look at the list of participants in the main events that drafted the West German constitution such as the Rittersturz-Konferenz [1] and the Verfassungskonvent auf Herrenchiemsee [2], then you'll see that all participants are German. Nat…

My constitutional knowledge on the German constitution is a bit rusty, but I guess you hit the nail on the head when you say: 'Naturally, the allies had to agree'. The Allies were the ones that required these conferences and approved of the Germans that went there. I guess the English and the French had some say, but really the big dog of the allies was the US. So I stand by my statement.

I'd be interested to learn which part of the german constitution was "essentially written by the americans". Can you give an example? Just one?

Please don't forget that (1) the allies had really diametrically opposed goals -- France had to be coerced by the UK and the US to agree to the draft constiution. Moreover, (2) the allies tried hard to avoid the impression that they were forcing anything on the german drafters. Only the date for the drafting conference was an allied constraint: 1. September 1948. The allies wanted to West-German population to accept the constitution, remember the cold was was hotting up at the time, and Soviet union was good at exploiting discontent.

   approved of the Germans 
   that went there
Is that even true? Was there an official approval process? Have you got a reference for this claim?

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#16

Post by socksindrawers »

sandworm101 wrote: post #5

I don't see the problem. Extended detention and repeated interrogation is normal around the world. Visit Rikers island and look at how long people are held there prior to trial (years). The focus on confessions isn't a Japanese thing. Look at how many americans/canadians/brits/auzzis agree plea deals, a form of confession. Repeated questioning isn't torture. In the USA it is true that police have to stop asking quest…

If anything, I'm happy that there's a country willing to prosecute people for white collar crimes.

Just look at how America is all-too-willing to let mass murderers like the Sackler family get away with profiting off of addiction. Do these sound like words of someone trying to do anything other than profit off of death? “The prescription blizzard will be so deep, dense, and white.”

Meanwhile you see blue collar Americans charged with federal riot and conspiracy charges for exercising their legally protected free speech rights at a protest that they had acquired a permit for (Rise Above Movement).

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#17

Post by ConcernedCoder »

sandworm101 wrote: post #5

I don't see the problem. Extended detention and repeated interrogation is normal around the world. Visit Rikers island and look at how long people are held there prior to trial (years). The focus on confessions isn't a Japanese thing. Look at how many americans/canadians/brits/auzzis agree plea deals, a form of confession. Repeated questioning isn't torture. In the USA it is true that police have to stop asking quest…

My unpopular opinion: Questioning someone longer than they want to provide answers, when that same person is unable to leave the interview is a form of torture -- change my mind.

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#18

Post by rhizome »

u10 wrote: post #6
ttul wrote: post #3

A hundred years ago, Japan was a feudal society. Apparently, some of the old traditions live on.

Japan wasn't a feudal society 100 years ago, in fact, they had beaten a western power 10 years prior. Not to mention the 'West' just finished 4 years of blowing each other up, not very "Civilized" imo.

And also not to mention that while their internal justice may have been questionable (as it always is, everywhere), the Edo period had zero war for 250 years. Imagine the US never having been in a war since before the Declaration of Independence. Would that GP included that in their criticism.

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#19

Post by ekianjo »

sandworm101 wrote: post #5

I don't see the problem. Extended detention and repeated interrogation is normal around the world. Visit Rikers island and look at how long people are held there prior to trial (years). The focus on confessions isn't a Japanese thing. Look at how many americans/canadians/brits/auzzis agree plea deals, a form of confession. Repeated questioning isn't torture. In the USA it is true that police have to stop asking quest…

> I don't see the problem. Extended detention and repeated interrogation is normal around the world.

You could say the following as well:

I don't see the problem. Dictatorship is normal around the world.

Since when is something normal just because it's widespread? There is no reason to keep someone in jail unless there is a strong suspicion they are a threat to others, or a risk of flight.

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#20

Post by colejohnson66 »

socksindrawers wrote: post #16
sandworm101 wrote: post #5

I don't see the problem. Extended detention and repeated interrogation is normal around the world. Visit Rikers island and look at how long people are held there prior to trial (years). The focus on confessions isn't a Japanese thing. Look at how many americans/canadians/brits/auzzis agree plea deals, a form of confession. Repeated questioning isn't torture. In the USA it is true that police have to stop asking quest…

If anything, I'm happy that there's a country willing to prosecute people for white collar crimes. Just look at how America is all-too-willing to let mass murderers like the Sackler family get away with profiting off of addiction. Do these sound like words of someone trying to do anything other than profit off of death? “The prescription blizzard will be so deep, dense, and white.” Meanwhile you see blue collar Ameri…

Rioting, even with a permit to protest, is illegal
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