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Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

theaustralian.com.au

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Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#81

Post by jacquesm »

khafra wrote: post #77
lkjhgfvhjk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a great 'operation ore' defence though. If a web site was offering payment by Visa/Mastercard then I assumed it was all legal when I signed up to download the pictures - because MC/Visa vet their customers. Note to foreigners: operation ore was a UK police sweep to arrest pedophiles solely on the evidence that their credit card numbers had been used on child porn sites in the US. The judge rejected claims that t…

Holy crap. A simple trip to Wikipedia will reveal that there was over 500 million pounds worth of credit card fraud per year at last count; I can only hope the judge was immediately impeached. edited to correct 3 order of magnitude error (thanks, jacquesm); but at least I was much closer than a judge, and not using that figure for binding decisions ruining many peoples' lives .

That's million, not billion.

And It's worse than that actually, that's the portion that is detected.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#82

Post by nhangen »

nhangen wrote: post #41
mquander wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, look at the comment you originally replied to. It's a "reasonable objection" about Wikileaks. It also has actual content and a point that it makes, as opposed to, say, being a one-line opinion with no support. Now look at your comment.

I replied to a comment in the thread, re-enforcing that commenters opinion. I'm sure people don't like it, and that's fine, but to consistently be downvoted every time I post a negative reaction to Assange is absurd. I wish we, as a community, could elevate ourselves above the infighting reminiscent of an MSNBC or FOXNews.

The irony runs deep.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#83

Post by jonknee »

moxiemk1 wrote: post #78
jacquesm wrote: post #50

Bail was refused: "Let down by the UK justice system's bizarre decision to refuse bail to Julian Assange. But #cablegate releases continue as planned." http://twitter.com/wikileaks

Is it bizarre to refuse bail to someone who has been constantly on the move and clearly knows how to evade detection to a fair degree? He seems to be a perfect example of a fleeing risk.

Well he did turn himself in right after being asked.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#84

Post by cuppster »

necolas wrote: post #24

2.07pm: More financial problems for WikiLeaks: Visa says it has suspended all payments to WikiLeaks "pending further investigation". Earlier MasterCard said: "MasterCard is taking action to ensure that WikiLeaks can no longer accept MasterCard-branded products." http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2010/dec/07/wikileaks-us...

Surprised Visa and Mastercard didn't do something more evil... like raise their APR to 19.99%

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#85

Post by jacquesm »

nhangen wrote: post #79
jacquesm wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent question. Please google the Pentagon Papers and educate yourself some more on the subject. If we followed your conclusion pretty much all the newspapers in the world that actually did their jobs would be in the docket tomorrow. There has always been a tug-of-war between the press and the government about what is and what is not permitted and it is universally recognized that a free press is essential to the…

I don't see the issue as free press. I don't believe that our press has ever been more free than it is today. The issue I'm concerned with is that this turns people like Manning into heroes. Freedom of the press was not created to protect classified documents. They didn't exist at the time. It was created to protect the press' right to contradict and/or point out the flaw in the government system, and the people that…

> but fear of what these documents will do to strengthen our enemies.

I don't subscribe to your fear, or to your suggestion that we have a common enemy.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#86

Post by joshuaheard »

jacquesm wrote: post #72
nhangen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In doing business with criminals, you become one IMO. Sure, technically he's not violating any laws, but I think that points to flaws in the justice system (worldwide, not just the US) more than it does to his nobility. If someone illegally sells/steals/shares confidential information, then where does the chain of responsibility/legality stop?

Excellent question. Please google the Pentagon Papers and educate yourself some more on the subject. If we followed your conclusion pretty much all the newspapers in the world that actually did their jobs would be in the docket tomorrow. There has always been a tug-of-war between the press and the government about what is and what is not permitted and it is universally recognized that a free press is essential to the…

So you apply to the government for a job and in your job application, you put your address, social security number, telephone number, your personal references, etc. Then the government does a background check on you including your credit history, transcripts of interviews with your friends and family, copies of sealed court records, and copies of medical records obtained to qualify for employer insurance.

One country wants to buy airplanes from another country. It has offered $1 million for the airplanes, but the seller wants $2 million. The country writes an email saying it is willing to pay $2 million, but wants to negotiate. If a newspaper published the email the seller would demand $2 million costing the country an additional $1 million.

Suppose the military had a remote missile launch capability that allowed generals to telephone in and launch a missile. A newspaper gets hold of the phone number and launch codes allowing anyone to launch the missiles.

Under your reasoning, it is right to publish these.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#87

Post by mwg66 »

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #47
jacquesm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which makes me wonder what is in the leaks that we haven't seen yet. After all if highly placed officials are getting their panties in a twist based on what we've seen so far then they are over-reacting to put it mildly. Time will tell. Some of the responses from politicians are beyond the pale and what bugs me more is that nobody even thinks of calling them to account over this, or so much as distancing themselves f…

It honestly wouldn't shock me that the restarted attacks on North and South Korea weren't because of Wikileaks. Or for that matter, I'd be surprised that the US isn't having setbacks on many diplomatic processes.

100% FUD. There is not a single iota of evidence to support that.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth

#89

Post by nhangen »

nhangen wrote: post #79
jacquesm wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent question. Please google the Pentagon Papers and educate yourself some more on the subject. If we followed your conclusion pretty much all the newspapers in the world that actually did their jobs would be in the docket tomorrow. There has always been a tug-of-war between the press and the government about what is and what is not permitted and it is universally recognized that a free press is essential to the…

I don't see the issue as free press. I don't believe that our press has ever been more free than it is today. The issue I'm concerned with is that this turns people like Manning into heroes. Freedom of the press was not created to protect classified documents. They didn't exist at the time. It was created to protect the press' right to contradict and/or point out the flaw in the government system, and the people that…

I'm referring to enemies of the West. If you live in the US, UK, or Eastern Europe and don't believe we have common enemies, then you are sadly mistaken.

I've met them. They don't like us.

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