Canada scores significantly higher than the US. Yet I don't see Canada beating the US at anything anytime soon.
Top Test Scores From Shanghai Stun Educators
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Re: Top Test Scores From Shanghai Stun Educators
#22Am I the only one missing India from the rankings?
Re: Top Test Scores From Shanghai Stun Educators
#23About 5,100 15-year-olds in Shanghai were chosen as a representative cross-section of students in that city. Who did the "choosing" and what defines "representative." We were all impressed with the Chinese Women's Gymnastics Team during the last olympics. Then it turned out many were barely of age to compete. And they were very careful about interacting with the cameras. Were I the U.S. education chief, I'd be talkin…
Indeed, we've recently seen how much Shanghai is not representative of China as a whole: http://blog.sokanu.com/200-countries-200-years-4-minutes (skip to near the end of the video if you haven't seen it already) If the US chose only students from say, California and New England, I'm sure we'd be competitive with China as well.
I agree about China being representative, but even the best performing state in the US (Massachusetts) still takes a beating from a country like Finland. See the Atlantic's "Your Child Left Behind" - http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/11/your-chi...
Re: Top Test Scores From Shanghai Stun Educators
#24Canada scores significantly higher than the US. Yet I don't see Canada beating the US at anything anytime soon.
How about at humility?
Re: Top Test Scores From Shanghai Stun Educators
#25high probability of government organized cheating it's China and national pride justifies everything
You know little about the Chinese education system.
All Chinese kids (I was one of them) are basically trained for these kinds of standard tests. For the most part of their school life, they are judged by the scores they get. The whole point of the system is not to educate, but to test, and based on scores, pick the few at the top for better schools to go next year, and the process repeats. This pattern starts from primary schools all up to graduate schools. That's all freaking 16 years!
It is no surprise they score high in this one. They do not need to cheat. Of course if they want they can, but my point still holds: they are battle-tested “exam machines”.
The problem, though, is that the approach kills creativity and innovation.
Threat? Hell no. As long as the States keeps recruiting the best minds with scholarship and offers visa for them to stay working there, I don't see any chance the States will fall behind in smartness.
Re: Top Test Scores From Shanghai Stun Educators
#26By the very nature of Shanghai there is tons more selection going on than in any US state.
1. Incredibly high land prices 2. long history of smart/rich people moving to the city - if you fail, you go back to your hometown 3. legislation trying to push people out of the city (only overcome by smart/rich people) 4. delayed puberty compared to average white or black american 5. no cultural value assigned to being rebellious
What percent of the US students tested were non-native speakers? What percent had spent years of their education overseas?
Finally, I don't know why everyone always talks about average education levels. I would much rather have the best top 10% or 1% in any field living in my country than have the highest average. And that's why I still feel pretty good about the US.
Re: Top Test Scores From Shanghai Stun Educators
#27These tests are not as meaningful because it is not country vs country.
But countries vs citiy states.
Hong Kong, and Singapore are basically cities not countries.
If South Korea only tested Seoul instead of the whole country, they would have also looked better.
Re: Top Test Scores From Shanghai Stun Educators
#28About 5,100 15-year-olds in Shanghai were chosen as a representative cross-section of students in that city. Who did the "choosing" and what defines "representative." We were all impressed with the Chinese Women's Gymnastics Team during the last olympics. Then it turned out many were barely of age to compete. And they were very careful about interacting with the cameras. Were I the U.S. education chief, I'd be talkin…
Why don't you read the entire article first?
The testing in Shanghai was carried out by an international contractor, working with Chinese authorities, and overseen by the Australian Council for Educational Research, a nonprofit testing group, said Andreas Schleicher, who directs the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development’s international educational testing program.
Mark Schneider, a commissioner of the Department of Education’s research arm in the George W. Bush administration, who returned from an educational research visit to China on Friday, said he had been skeptical about some PISA results in the past. But Mr. Schneider said he considered the accuracy of these results to be unassailable.
“The technical side of this was well regulated, the sampling was O.K., and there was no evidence of cheating,” he said.
Re: Top Test Scores From Shanghai Stun Educators
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
How well would Germany do if it took away Turkish scores, and how well would France do if it took away Arab scores? Perhaps the U.S would do even better if only Asian-Americans were allowed to participate.
American Chinese vs Chinese Chinese is the only fair way to do this; otherwise, it's apples and oranges (and oranges are better).
No way. American Whites vs Chinese Whites is the only fair comparison.
Re: Top Test Scores From Shanghai Stun Educators
#30A fairer comparison (city to city, with education-obsessed parents), would be between Shanghai and Cupertino.
Not a fair comparison at all. Cupertino would easily win.