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U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

nytimes.com

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Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#101

Post by FerretFred »

dgellow wrote: post #8

> Mr. Ephgrave, the assistant commissioner, acknowledged such concerns in his statement. > “We understand that how personal data is used can be a source of anxiety,” he said. “We would never want victims to feel that they can’t report crimes because of ‘intrusion’ in their data.” > “That’s why a new national form has been introduced,” replacing policies that varied from place to place, “to help police seek informed c…

> an institution that is supposed to protect people under its jurisdiction

Sadly, that was a long time ago. Now they're a massively-under-resourced, under-manned "service" (they used to be the Police Force). From many UK citizens' experience, all we can hope for as victims of crime is to record the crime, get a crime number and wait for something to happen. Very sad, and increasingly dangerous...

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#103

Post by Plyphon_ »

tropdrop wrote: post #88
bennybob wrote: post #39

This is seems fair enough to me, it's an attempt to prevent this kind of thing happening again: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-engla...

Ah, yes, so if you are a victim of a violent crime (let's say, someone mugged you at gunpoint, but did not bruise you - just held you at gunpoint until you surrendered your wallet), it seems perfectly reasonable for the police to hold your phone for weeks or months, searching through all of your photos (including the occasional nude photo of your spouse), in order to MAYBE find that one of your contacts might be a cu…

So that is an unlikely scenario -

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/11228241787200552...

"The prosecution is under a duty to pursue all reasonable lines of enquiry in an investigation, and to disclose to the defence any material it uncovers which may be reasonably capable of undermining the prosecution case or assisting the defence."

If you, as the victim, did not know the attacker and there was no reasonable reason to suspect you did know each other then your phone would not be requested into evidence.

You have to remember the vast majority of rapes are committed by parties who know each other previously, which is why it's so relevant to this specific crime.

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#104

Post by dustinmoris »

Wow, this article by the New York times is so different than what news have reported in the UK here. It reads like a cheap tabloit newspaper aimed at getting people angry over an issue by purposefully leaving out facts and details which I would consider borderline lies.

The new law is aimed not for any crime victims, but specifically rape and serious sexual offence victims.

> "It comes after a number of rape and serious sexual assault cases collapsed when crucial evidence emerged."

I'd recommend reading this instead: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48086244

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#105

Post by johnisgood »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #91
username223 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can always vote and legislate for something better. From my experience in the US, police vary from decent people just trying to serve society, to up-armored mall cops on power trips. If you give them assault rifles, tanks, and unlimited surveillance, you encourage the worst among them. A guy wearing a uniform and trained in de-escalation instead of "verbal control" could do some good.

> We can always vote and legislate for something better. How? Which political party or independents promote a policy to reduce police powers? And even if there were, or are, any politicians with such a policy we ought to be more suspicious of them!

Yeah, it is not going to happen through such ways. No way. Whoever would want to do it would be getting pressure from influential people on multiple fronts. Let us play with the thought though. Who would go through such risks? What would they gain from it?

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#107

Post by zhangeru »

londons_explore wrote: post #95
sundvor wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a victim you may be prosecuted if police discover something irrelevant to the case, yet still incriminating. This seems to have the potential of severe abuse, if a rapist is aware of such matters they would feel protected to carry out their travesties. What the actual f* indeed.

The rapist isn't guaranteed not to be prosecuted if the victim doesn't hand over data. But you're right that a rapist careful not to leave behind too much other evidence is likely protected.

Not only that, but a rapist could use the threat of police investigation for something like recreational drug use to scare a victim into never going to the police in the first place.

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#108

Post by philpem »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #91
username223 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can always vote and legislate for something better. From my experience in the US, police vary from decent people just trying to serve society, to up-armored mall cops on power trips. If you give them assault rifles, tanks, and unlimited surveillance, you encourage the worst among them. A guy wearing a uniform and trained in de-escalation instead of "verbal control" could do some good.

> We can always vote and legislate for something better. How? Which political party or independents promote a policy to reduce police powers? And even if there were, or are, any politicians with such a policy we ought to be more suspicious of them!

The trick is to spin it better.

It's not "reducing police power", it's "even better training, tools and techniques for our hard-working police officers".

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#110

Post by philpem »

FerretFred wrote: post #101
dgellow wrote: post #8

> Mr. Ephgrave, the assistant commissioner, acknowledged such concerns in his statement. > “We understand that how personal data is used can be a source of anxiety,” he said. “We would never want victims to feel that they can’t report crimes because of ‘intrusion’ in their data.” > “That’s why a new national form has been introduced,” replacing policies that varied from place to place, “to help police seek informed c…

> an institution that is supposed to protect people under its jurisdiction Sadly, that was a long time ago. Now they're a massively-under-resourced, under-manned "service" (they used to be the Police Force ). From many UK citizens' experience, all we can hope for as victims of crime is to record the crime, get a crime number and wait for something to happen. Very sad, and increasingly dangerous...

I don't know why this has been downvoted, anyone who's had any contact with the UK police knows it's absolutely true.

I was attacked and injured a few years ago, in an area with really good CCTV. The police spent six weeks claiming to be "picking up the evidence soon", all the while I have the CCTV operator calling me every fortnight asking when the police are going to pick up the tape. They never did.

A few weeks later, the guy who attacked me turned up in the press. Arrested for robbing an old lady and leaving her in hospital.

Called the police back, "Oh. There's nothing we can do. It's your word against his, there's no evidence, and we've closed the case."

Called the CCTV operator. They still had the tape. "I can keep it for another week before I have to destroy it."

Called the police back, told them to go pick up the tape. "No. The case is closed."

All they had to do was tell a passing car to drop in with an evidence bag and even that was too much work for them.

And this was long before the police cuts. It's only got worse since.

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