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A Quest to Make Gasoline Out of Thin Air: Prometheus (YC W19)

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Re: A Quest to Make Gasoline Out of Thin Air: Prometheus (YC W19)

#31

Post by cgh »

rayiner wrote: post #5

This is really, fundamentally important technology. Emissions reduction will not work: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nations-are-not-r... > The authors of the report stated in a press release that the kind of drastic, large-scale action the planet desperately needs has yet to be seen, even though global emissions have reached record levels at 53.5 billion metric tons in 2017, with no signs of peaking. >…

Fully agree. This company is located near me and does this now: https://carbonengineering.com/

I’m not sure about the specifics of this new Prometheus startup or if their process is different.

Re: A Quest to Make Gasoline Out of Thin Air: Prometheus (YC W19)

#32

Post by natch »

rayiner wrote: post #5

This is really, fundamentally important technology. Emissions reduction will not work: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nations-are-not-r... > The authors of the report stated in a press release that the kind of drastic, large-scale action the planet desperately needs has yet to be seen, even though global emissions have reached record levels at 53.5 billion metric tons in 2017, with no signs of peaking. >…

Well no, this is really, fundamentally wrong-headed technology. We already have more than enough petroleum to catastrophically ruin our environment.

As AOC put it, climate change is our World War II. We won't solve it by sitting on our hands and being negative about the real solutions that are out there.

> But the rest of the world has added 15 gigatons since 1990. That 15 gigatons represents a shift from desperate poverty in Africa, India, and China

Citation needed. But just taking China alone, they are shifting massively away from carbon emitting technologies and into alternatives.

Carbon recapture is a nice dream. But I'm skeptical it will deliver anywhere near the level of impact needed. Much better is to stop carbon emission at its source by making more industries sustainable... case in point, transportation should transition to electric so it can draw on the ever increasing sources of sustainable energy in the grid.

Re: A Quest to Make Gasoline Out of Thin Air: Prometheus (YC W19)

#33

Post by apo »

Converting carbon dioxide into hydrocarbons consumes energy. If the product is simply burned for fuel, I can see no benefit to this effort at all. Energy will have been consumed and carbon will be re-released.

What am I missing here? All I can see is a battery in the form of gasoline. And its efficiency remains to be seen - assuming the process actually works and can scale.

Re: A Quest to Make Gasoline Out of Thin Air: Prometheus (YC W19)

#34

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #16
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much do today's "carbon recapture" methods need to grow? What's the timeline on them looking like? P.S. The first Google result for carbon recapture is titled "“Direct air capture” of carbon dioxide won't solve climate change" P.P.S From Wikipedia with a cited source: capturing and compressing CO2 and other system costs are estimated to increase the cost per watt-hour energy produced by 21–91% for fossil fuel pow…

The author of the article (who does not appear to be an expert in anything) overlooks that renewables only address part of the emissions picture. Even if the U.S. switched tomorrow to 100% renewables and 100% electric vehicles (including trains, cars, planes, and ships), and you ignore the CO2 emissions of making all those new power plants and vehicles, U.S. usage would only go down by 3.5 gigaton: https://www.epa.go…

[deleted]

Re: A Quest to Make Gasoline Out of Thin Air: Prometheus (YC W19)

#35

Post by natch »

rayiner wrote: post #16
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much do today's "carbon recapture" methods need to grow? What's the timeline on them looking like? P.S. The first Google result for carbon recapture is titled "“Direct air capture” of carbon dioxide won't solve climate change" P.P.S From Wikipedia with a cited source: capturing and compressing CO2 and other system costs are estimated to increase the cost per watt-hour energy produced by 21–91% for fossil fuel pow…

The author of the article (who does not appear to be an expert in anything) overlooks that renewables only address part of the emissions picture. Even if the U.S. switched tomorrow to 100% renewables and 100% electric vehicles (including trains, cars, planes, and ships), and you ignore the CO2 emissions of making all those new power plants and vehicles, U.S. usage would only go down by 3.5 gigaton: https://www.epa.go…

>It won't change the CO2 emissions created by home and commercial heating, agriculture, and industrial uses, which add up to another 3.5 or so gigatons.

So address each one in turn, or in parallel. You give no reason not to.

Re: A Quest to Make Gasoline Out of Thin Air: Prometheus (YC W19)

#36

Post by ThrustVectoring »

I strongly suspect that manufacturing hydrocarbon fuel out of air, water, and electricity is going to be a pretty significant part of the fight against climate change.

The reason is fundamentally political. Newly industrialized countries have a lot of vital economic activity dependent on internal combustion engines, and cannot afford the luxury of replacing them with alternatives. The West does not have the political will and power to worsen starvation in India in order to lower the CO2 emissions caused by engines manufactured and used in India. It's a lot more feasible to subsidize carbon-neutral fuel generation schemes until it's cost competitive for Indian consumers.

In other words, this kind of scheme can be used to essentially ship CO2 emission reductions from one country to another. It replaces a wicked problem with complex political and social components to a mere application of staggering sums of money and resources.

Re: A Quest to Make Gasoline Out of Thin Air: Prometheus (YC W19)

#37

Post by natch »

rayiner wrote: post #16
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much do today's "carbon recapture" methods need to grow? What's the timeline on them looking like? P.S. The first Google result for carbon recapture is titled "“Direct air capture” of carbon dioxide won't solve climate change" P.P.S From Wikipedia with a cited source: capturing and compressing CO2 and other system costs are estimated to increase the cost per watt-hour energy produced by 21–91% for fossil fuel pow…

The author of the article (who does not appear to be an expert in anything) overlooks that renewables only address part of the emissions picture. Even if the U.S. switched tomorrow to 100% renewables and 100% electric vehicles (including trains, cars, planes, and ships), and you ignore the CO2 emissions of making all those new power plants and vehicles, U.S. usage would only go down by 3.5 gigaton: https://www.epa.go…

>wouldn't offset the growth in India, China, and Africa. And those places are a long ways away from electric cars

On the contrary, China is going crazy for electric cars. And the U.S. and EU are starting to turn as well. I wonder where you are getting your ideas.

Re: A Quest to Make Gasoline Out of Thin Air: Prometheus (YC W19)

#38

Post by MuffinFlavored »

rayiner wrote: post #16
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much do today's "carbon recapture" methods need to grow? What's the timeline on them looking like? P.S. The first Google result for carbon recapture is titled "“Direct air capture” of carbon dioxide won't solve climate change" P.P.S From Wikipedia with a cited source: capturing and compressing CO2 and other system costs are estimated to increase the cost per watt-hour energy produced by 21–91% for fossil fuel pow…

The author of the article (who does not appear to be an expert in anything) overlooks that renewables only address part of the emissions picture. Even if the U.S. switched tomorrow to 100% renewables and 100% electric vehicles (including trains, cars, planes, and ships), and you ignore the CO2 emissions of making all those new power plants and vehicles, U.S. usage would only go down by 3.5 gigaton: https://www.epa.go…

> Carbon recapture can do a very important thing renweables cannot--allow the developed world to suck out the developing world's CO2.

What would that look like? Pipes on top of smoke stacks in China? Big mesh blanket clouds in the sky?

Re: A Quest to Make Gasoline Out of Thin Air: Prometheus (YC W19)

#40

Post by MuffinFlavored »

rayiner wrote: post #16
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much do today's "carbon recapture" methods need to grow? What's the timeline on them looking like? P.S. The first Google result for carbon recapture is titled "“Direct air capture” of carbon dioxide won't solve climate change" P.P.S From Wikipedia with a cited source: capturing and compressing CO2 and other system costs are estimated to increase the cost per watt-hour energy produced by 21–91% for fossil fuel pow…

The author of the article (who does not appear to be an expert in anything) overlooks that renewables only address part of the emissions picture. Even if the U.S. switched tomorrow to 100% renewables and 100% electric vehicles (including trains, cars, planes, and ships), and you ignore the CO2 emissions of making all those new power plants and vehicles, U.S. usage would only go down by 3.5 gigaton: https://www.epa.go…

> The current cost of carbon capture is about $120 per ton. If it follows the same trend as improvements on solar panel cost, that could be $40 per ton in a decade.

This sounds reasonable to me. Do you believe this will be the way forward most likely?

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