Live data from Hacker News

Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

nintendolife.com

171–180 of 188 posts

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#171

I have often wondered... Could you make a video game for these platforms, Nintendo or iOS, where there is a fully... is endogenous the word? virtual machine in the game world that you could program on? Like, the registers and compute cycles weren't real ticks, they actually happen within the game loop? Like, if I made a space sim¹, and the flight computer ran on PICO-8², and there were actual transistors in the space…

Nintendo does tend to allow things that let users "code" their own games, as long as it's well-checked and the devs are upfront about it. See SmileBasic(http://smilebasic.com/en/), a commercial BASIC interpreter for 3DS that let's you make simple games, condoned by Nintendo and sold on the eShop. Coincidentally, it led to 2 separate exploit chains that allow for native code execution - Nintendo doesn't want any of that and it's understandable that they want to avoid any possibility of it happening, especially if the groundwork for such an exploit is getting snuck in as a legitimate game without even telling them about it. People will always find their way around sandboxes and limitations, especially on a highly targeted system like the switch.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#172

I have often wondered... Could you make a video game for these platforms, Nintendo or iOS, where there is a fully... is endogenous the word? virtual machine in the game world that you could program on? Like, the registers and compute cycles weren't real ticks, they actually happen within the game loop? Like, if I made a space sim¹, and the flight computer ran on PICO-8², and there were actual transistors in the space…

iOS has a full Javascript interpreter with native API access and Files.app integration available as an app: https://scriptable.app

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OtherOS was officially removed due to security concerns. I'm not sure how to find this offhand but my recollection is that OtherOS was used to facilitate jailbreaking the system. Its function wasn't to prevent jailbreaks but to get people interested in programming for the Cell processor.

A significant portion of the skilled hardware hackers cracking consoles do it because they care about homebrew, but they dislike piracy. By providing something like OtherOS, you remove the incentive for that group to crack your console. It is fairly telling that the PS3 was only cracked after OtherOS was removed.

A news article talking about George Hotz's original PS3 hack was released January 25, 2010. The PS3 software update that removed OtherOS was released April 1, 2010.

As I recall, ultimately Hotz managed to compromise the device's root key, and Sony determined that it was impossible to protect the key (after replacing it) as long as OtherOS continued to exist.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#174
post #40

>The narrative that has played out online is exactly what's wrong with this trashcan fire of a world. >Everyone is an armchair expert. Everyone thought the worst. You've seen that I've been called a dick, idiot, and everything in between. Because sensationalised news sells. If the narrative was 'I added a sandbox to A Dark Room that lets you mod the game and provide a medium for kids to code (and technical parents to…

The fact that Nintendo were always like this does not mean it is okay. If there's anything wrong with this story it's how everyone seems to silently accept it is okay for a company to tell you what you can run on the hardware that you "buy" but not really own.

That's a bit of a silly argument. A games console is specifically sold as a device upon which you can play games, and nothing else. If you want to be able to perform other computing tasks and/or write your own programs you buy a general purpose computer not a games console. Your argument is a bit like saying "why can't I fry burgers with my fridge?"

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#175

That's wild because Super Mario Bros contains a built-in code editor (via arbitrary code execution easter eggs), and Nintendo is OK with that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPcV9uIY5i4

That's arbitrary code execution, but it's not by any stretch a "built-in code editor".

You say potato, I say potato.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#176

That's wild because Super Mario Bros contains a built-in code editor (via arbitrary code execution easter eggs), and Nintendo is OK with that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPcV9uIY5i4

That is "Super Mario World". I don't think you know what "built-in" means. Arbitrary code execution and bugs are not "Easter eggs". Almost every word in your comment is wrong.

Here's an upvote.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's arbitrary code execution, but it's not by any stretch a "built-in code editor".

You say potato, I say potato.

It's a significant distinction, in this case!

Nintendo did not intentionally build a way to create and execute arbitrary code in Super Mario World. It happens as a consequence of various unintentional bugs.

The existence of this phenomenon does not tell us anything about what Nintendo is "okay" with on their platforms, because it wasn't created purposefully.

If Super Mario World contained a "code editor", that would be a very different story. You can't very well create a code editor by accident.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#178
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that Nintendo were always like this does not mean it is okay. If there's anything wrong with this story it's how everyone seems to silently accept it is okay for a company to tell you what you can run on the hardware that you "buy" but not really own.

That's a bit of a silly argument. A games console is specifically sold as a device upon which you can play games, and nothing else. If you want to be able to perform other computing tasks and/or write your own programs you buy a general purpose computer not a games console. Your argument is a bit like saying "why can't I fry burgers with my fridge?"

Uh...not at all similar. Refrigerators don’t have the capability to fry burgers, and if someone came along and figured out a way to do that, the refrigerator manufacturer couldn’t say “your banned from making any modifications to our refrigerators”.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#179
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> providing excellent gaming experience ... not polluted by the games-as-service and free-to-play monetization mindsets as badly as other platforms. But why does this have to do with draconian lock-down rules? Presumably, allowing homebrew code is not gonna affect the above at all.

The fact that they are so strict in a very real way keeps a lot of crapware and annoyances (that I do see on other platforms, more or less linearly following the openness) off of the marketplace. I go from liking it to hating it more or less on a yearly cycle, but I have never hated it enough to stop owning their devices. When I want something with solid gameplay that doesn't just sell because the graphics are so goo…

The quality of software available on the nintendo store has nothing to do with how locked down the hardware is! Of course nintendo (or any other platform holder) would like you to believe otherwise, because by controlling the platform, they are able to maximize the profit extraction. Hardware lockdown and quality of the curated store has nothing to do with each other. Nintendo can (and should) continue to curate their store.

But if i want to produce homebrew for my own machine, I'd have to get permission from nintendo. I also have to pay for that priviledge, when the hardware is something i have purchased.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is how a lot of exploits start, though. Certain PSP games used to be valuable because you could present them with crafted save files to root devices. Although, you could also buy special batteries that would let you root a PSP...what a weird handheld. The point is, who knows, the game's scripting language could have shipped with an undocumented 'write word to memory' function.

Note that a game with a "write word to memory" function would still need to be able to break out of the sandbox.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN