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The Remote Manifesto

about.gitlab.com

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Re: The Remote Manifesto

#81

Post by dsumenkovic »

jypepin wrote: post #6

My observation is that there are 2 schools of thought about remote salaries. One side will pay SF-based competitive salaries no matter where you are, are the other side will have a "cost of living" adjusted salary. Gitlab is in the latter group. I recently thought about it, and was wondering if this could create some bias / unfair preferential treatment when interviewing and competing with other candidates. If candid…

Here's a good read for everyone wondering why GitLab pays local rates https://about.gitlab.com/2019/02/28/why-we-pay-local-rates/.

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#82

Post by dsumenkovic »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #68
jypepin wrote: post #6

My observation is that there are 2 schools of thought about remote salaries. One side will pay SF-based competitive salaries no matter where you are, are the other side will have a "cost of living" adjusted salary. Gitlab is in the latter group. I recently thought about it, and was wondering if this could create some bias / unfair preferential treatment when interviewing and competing with other candidates. If candid…

My remote gig has several people who are pretty much digital nomads -- they move around often, travel even more often, and work from various states. We all get paid on the same scale (north-east coast based) so there's no issue; but, how would Gitlab handle this? Change their salary every time they log work from a new location? Even with that, it seems arbitrary and unbalanced. One person's cost of living paying for…

> My remote gig has several people who are pretty much digital nomads -- they move around often, travel even more often, and work from various states. We all get paid on the same scale (north-east coast based) so there's no issue; but, how would Gitlab handle this? Change their salary every time they log work from a new location?

Here's the documented process for the relocating while working at GitLab: https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/people-operations/global-c...

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#83

Post by GoblinSlayer »

jypepin wrote: post #6

My observation is that there are 2 schools of thought about remote salaries. One side will pay SF-based competitive salaries no matter where you are, are the other side will have a "cost of living" adjusted salary. Gitlab is in the latter group. I recently thought about it, and was wondering if this could create some bias / unfair preferential treatment when interviewing and competing with other candidates. If candid…

The SF candidate forces the employer to reside in SF and pay big prices due to centralization. The employer also must allocate SF space to contain the SF employee.

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#84

Post by malvosenior »

apaatsio wrote: post #71
rofo1 wrote: post #25

I've been working remotely (for companies that are not all 100% remote) for some time now and other than the occasional communication problems, there is simply no downside to it (for me). I am much more focused, I do better work, in a better health mentally and physically (I can exercise since I can organize my time), I don't waste time on commute. The people I work with are interested in results and that's what I de…

The whole "golf friends" thing doesn't make sense to me. I go to play golf to play golf, not find friends there. That seems to be unpopular opinion, but seriously, why do we mix those things up? My point being, why do we do bother to do anything with friends? If you're going to do something, whether it be work or play golf, isn't it better with friends than with strangers?

You choose to play golf, you have to work. It seems imposing to those of us with outside social lives that our co-workers are looking to us to fulfill a non-work role in their lives.

A lot of the conversations in this thread are also very IC centric. If you're a manager, really being open and social with people in your company is more of a liability than something you want to do. Your reports shouldn't be your friends.

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#85

Post by shampto3 »

tnolet wrote: post #7

However much I like Gitlab, the “disadvantages” section is a joke. Working alone with only video, chat and email is a huge fundamental change in how work is done and I’m pretty sure we as a society don’t really know yet what impact it has on social development, interpersonal skills, empathy, sympathy etc. they should at least acknowledge that.

I'm a GitLab employee, and I appreciate your concern for the disadvantages section. I think that we could enhance that section a little more to include other common concerns such as yours.

While I'm of course biased towards remote work, I can see the validity of people concerned with feeling isolated by working remotely. GitLab provides an option to pay for a coworking space for people who don't like working at home or by themselves. This is one way that you can mitigate the isolation issue while still maintaining the benefits of remote work.

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#86

Post by dsumenkovic »

baroffoos wrote: post #10
jypepin wrote: post #6

My observation is that there are 2 schools of thought about remote salaries. One side will pay SF-based competitive salaries no matter where you are, are the other side will have a "cost of living" adjusted salary. Gitlab is in the latter group. I recently thought about it, and was wondering if this could create some bias / unfair preferential treatment when interviewing and competing with other candidates. If candid…

That bias already exists, if 2 candidates with the same skill apply and one is asking for a lower pay then they are likely to be picked over the other. Why pay more for the same skill? If you want to have higher chances of being accepted then lowering your costs so you can lower your required pay is a good strategy. I'm fairly sure the gitlab ceo commented before that they don't want to pay people way way over the lo…

Hi! Did you mean of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18443561? Also, there's a blog post about why GitLab pays local rates https://about.gitlab.com/2019/02/28/why-we-pay-local-rates/.

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#87

Post by gshdg »

jypepin wrote: post #6

My observation is that there are 2 schools of thought about remote salaries. One side will pay SF-based competitive salaries no matter where you are, are the other side will have a "cost of living" adjusted salary. Gitlab is in the latter group. I recently thought about it, and was wondering if this could create some bias / unfair preferential treatment when interviewing and competing with other candidates. If candid…

Isn't that part of the point? Being remote allows Gitlab to hire the less expensive candidate, assuming equal suitability for the job. That's good for the company.

If that's translating into other biases (race/gender/age/etc), then that's a bad thing, and perhaps someone could make a legal case against it. But it seems a little odd to complain that an employer is biased against you because of a choice you make to live in a place with a high cost of living.

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#88

Post by sytse »

jypepin wrote: post #6

My observation is that there are 2 schools of thought about remote salaries. One side will pay SF-based competitive salaries no matter where you are, are the other side will have a "cost of living" adjusted salary. Gitlab is in the latter group. I recently thought about it, and was wondering if this could create some bias / unfair preferential treatment when interviewing and competing with other candidates. If candid…

We want to hire the best candidate regardless of cost. We do optimize what potential candidates we approach. We focus more on diverse hires when reaching out ourselves. Diverse both as in geographically and underrepresented minorities.

BTW Our blog post about our school of though https://about.gitlab.com/2019/02/28/why-we-pay-local-rates/

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#89

Post by scruple »

ngrilly wrote: post #13

The manifesto mentions: > Evolution of speech-to-text conversion software - more accurate and faster than typing Last time I tried I wasn't convinced. Anyone here is really using that to program, write emails or write Markdown?

I only use it for quick slack or instant messages with my team when I am otherwise occupied. Maybe I'll make a run at it later today when I have to do some documentation.

My experience has been that they're not great and every sentence requires manual editing. Though, on Android, at least, it has improved noticeably over the last couple of updates.

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#90

Post by jypepin »

sokoloff wrote: post #50
jypepin wrote: post #6

My observation is that there are 2 schools of thought about remote salaries. One side will pay SF-based competitive salaries no matter where you are, are the other side will have a "cost of living" adjusted salary. Gitlab is in the latter group. I recently thought about it, and was wondering if this could create some bias / unfair preferential treatment when interviewing and competing with other candidates. If candid…

> If candidate A is in SF, and another candidate, B, is in another cheaper area, and Gitlab is trying to decide between the 2 candidates, won't they be leaning toward hiring candidate B because of lower salary? All else being equal. All else being equal, why would this be wrong? If I can buy a gallon of milk, a TV, or a car based on price/promotion why wouldn't/shouldn't a company be able to seek the best "deal" for…

You raise a good point yeah, except I'm wondering if this is different since we are talking about people. I can think of

- salary parity requirements - location based discrimination for a post announced as non-based on location

Again I don't know myself, that's why I'm asking!

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