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UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

privacyinternational.org

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Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#41

Post by catoc »

jMyles wrote: post #27

Surely whatever mechanism they are using cannot overcome device encryption?

Last I heard (see source) is that they can bypass the pinlock delay, making brute-force entry much more efficient. If you use a numeric pincode, even if 8 digits, "breaking the encryption" is well within their reach. If you use an alphanumeric+symbols password that 8 characters or longer, brute-forcing rapidly becomes impossible, even for cellebrite.

A running, unlocked phone may be hacked by zero days. Encryption at rest... currently no.

Any body have more details on these technical aspects ?

Source: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/02/celle...

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#42

Post by lenkite »

jscott0918 wrote: post #37
lenkite wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well..CCTV cameras caught the 2005 bomber's at King's Cross Station and helped establish their identities and their full itinerary when cross-referenced with other CCTV videos

That doesn't mean its worth it. There is always a tradeoff and I would rather live in a world where I know I am free from surveillance than a world where I am .000001% safer or criminals are caught 10% faster.

Well. Strangely I happen to be one of the folks in that .000001%, so I apologize if my opinions have been shaped differently.

I lost one of my ex-school mates in an market-place explosion (2005 Delhi bombing). While the London Bombing suspects were identified, all suspects in the Delhi bombing that same year were released due to "lack of evidence".

I am completely in favor of surveillance of public property.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#43

Post by KineticLensman »

ksajadi wrote: post #19

When back in the early 00's the UK wanted to introduce a picture ID card, there were huge protests across the country that resulted in the scheme being shelved indefinitely. It took the UK years to even introduce a picture driving license (you might have seen the "counterpart" old driving licenses which were in use until very recently. They were a single A4 sheet with no picture on it). How ironic that despite the co…

> (you might have seen the "counterpart" old driving licenses which were in use until very recently

Non-photo UK driving licenses are in fact still legal [0] although they are not now issued. If you need a replacement or update (e.g. on address change) the new license will be the photo version. They are still valid for hire car.

If I need photo ID I use my passport. I do not therefore have an official photo-based identity document on me when travelling routinely in the UK.

[0] https://www.gov.uk/exchange-paper-driving-licence

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#44

Post by lenkite »

fabricexpert wrote: post #35
lenkite wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well..CCTV cameras caught the 2005 bomber's at King's Cross Station and helped establish their identities and their full itinerary when cross-referenced with other CCTV videos

One case 14 years ago that didn’t prevent a terrorist attack is a terrible reason to give up civil liberties

Its not merely prevention of one bombing. It is also prosecution and preventing future bombings. Otherwise the folks who plan these bombings are free to organize the next bombing.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#45

Post by camochameleon »

hu3 wrote: post #38
hu3 wrote: post #33

I'm confused. Can they copy raw data of iPhones? Even if the encryption is not breakable today, it might be in the future.

Full reports hints that they can already read data from iPhones too: Highlighting the potential value of data from mobile apps, a recent murder investigation in Germany utilized metrics from the apps on individuals’ phone. In that case, Apple’s iPhone health app activity record stated that the suspect was “‘climbing stairs,’ which authorities were able to correlate with the time he would have dragged his victim down…

In the case of iOS, it would require access to the phone or iCloud account. Health data is encrypted on device and in cloud storage [1] - see the "Health & Fitness" section.

[1] https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/approach-to-privacy/

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#46

Post by tclancy »

lenkite wrote: post #42
jscott0918 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean its worth it. There is always a tradeoff and I would rather live in a world where I know I am free from surveillance than a world where I am .000001% safer or criminals are caught 10% faster.

Well. Strangely I happen to be one of the folks in that .000001%, so I apologize if my opinions have been shaped differently. I lost one of my ex-school mates in an market-place explosion (2005 Delhi bombing). While the London Bombing suspects were identified, all suspects in the Delhi bombing that same year were released due to "lack of evidence". I am completely in favor of surveillance of public property.

But if we make a world safe from these .000001% events, what do you think that will look like? I can only imagine a dystopian/ Orwellian society where we are all encouraged to report any suspicious behavior and everything becomes a race to the bottom, a Prisoner's Dilemma where I feel pressured to rat out my neighbor for _something_ before he does it to me.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#47

Post by Quarrelsome »

ksajadi wrote: post #19

When back in the early 00's the UK wanted to introduce a picture ID card, there were huge protests across the country that resulted in the scheme being shelved indefinitely. It took the UK years to even introduce a picture driving license (you might have seen the "counterpart" old driving licenses which were in use until very recently. They were a single A4 sheet with no picture on it). How ironic that despite the co…

what brought most people onboard was that the government wanted people to pay for them.

Obviously the NIR was the big deal but nobody cared about that.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#48

Post by coldcode »

camochameleon wrote: post #45
hu3 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full reports hints that they can already read data from iPhones too: Highlighting the potential value of data from mobile apps, a recent murder investigation in Germany utilized metrics from the apps on individuals’ phone. In that case, Apple’s iPhone health app activity record stated that the suspect was “‘climbing stairs,’ which authorities were able to correlate with the time he would have dragged his victim down…

In the case of iOS, it would require access to the phone or iCloud account. Health data is encrypted on device and in cloud storage [1] - see the "Health & Fitness" section. [1] https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/approach-to-privacy/

Yes they cannot get anything from a modern iOS device. But they can still (for now) use a warrant to get anything from iCloud. Apple is working on making even that impossible.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#49

Post by close04 »

lenkite wrote: post #42
jscott0918 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean its worth it. There is always a tradeoff and I would rather live in a world where I know I am free from surveillance than a world where I am .000001% safer or criminals are caught 10% faster.

Well. Strangely I happen to be one of the folks in that .000001%, so I apologize if my opinions have been shaped differently. I lost one of my ex-school mates in an market-place explosion (2005 Delhi bombing). While the London Bombing suspects were identified, all suspects in the Delhi bombing that same year were released due to "lack of evidence". I am completely in favor of surveillance of public property.

The question is where do you draw the line for removing privacy to enable law enforcement? Would you consider a system that monitors every individual at all times because it would almost guarantee that any criminal is identified?

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#50

Post by Bartweiss »

switch007 wrote: post #36
xfitm3 wrote: post #4

It’s likely referring to routine data collection during police encounters. Michigan started doing something similar awhile ago. Forensic devices were installed in patrol cars and officers could download phone contents during a traffic stop. I’m sure these devices are a lot more advanced now. https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/michigan-police-cellphone-...

> police encounters That's a euphemism if I've ever heard one ;)

That one's right up there with "no active warrants" and "officer-involved".
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