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I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

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Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#251
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry that your experience was so terrible, but the plural of anecdote is not data. For a counter-anecdote, my experience of gifted programs is that it was the first place where I wasn't bullied for being more interested in books than sports. This didn't help me fit in with other kids my own age, but it did wonders for my self-confidence and significantly improved my odds of having a decent life. My wife's exper…

> the plural of anecdote is not data. ... and the definition of experience is not anecdote. I think that 2 years of experience qualify as data. Anecdote is when you walk in a street and slip casually in a banana skin once.

I'd actually like to see a study on slipping on banana skins. When I was young I heard the phrase and soon after I tested it. Banana skins aren't that slippery unless the medium under it, or the shoe above it is slippery.

Admittedly, this is just my experience, and probably not statistically significant

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#252

I always though how silly it was for teachers to pretend they got the correct answer in a text analysis of a century old author. Apparently it's even true for authors that are still alive. Some things seemed so far fetched, so random, so made up. And yet it was supposed to be _the_ right answer. When I offered another one, even knowing the official one but disagreeing, I was graded as failing. Hell, I'm pretty certai…

I appreciate the classics, but I would always get in trouble in school for asking how the teacher knew this is what the author meant. Even before I knew what a skeptic was, I was a skeptic. :)

I also was not being a smart ass. Many authors have additional writings that add color to the writing being studied.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#253

I always though how silly it was for teachers to pretend they got the correct answer in a text analysis of a century old author. Apparently it's even true for authors that are still alive. Some things seemed so far fetched, so random, so made up. And yet it was supposed to be _the_ right answer. When I offered another one, even knowing the official one but disagreeing, I was graded as failing. Hell, I'm pretty certai…

> And as a kid, you certainly can't say a classic author is not interesting. You can't say the text is boring, that you don't see talent in it, that you didn't learn anything from it. It has been validated by society, hence it's good. That is because that statement is both not useful in the context (you're there to pick it apart) and reflects pretty badly on your understanding, clearly the text has some depth, even i…

[deleted]

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#254

I always though how silly it was for teachers to pretend they got the correct answer in a text analysis of a century old author. Apparently it's even true for authors that are still alive. Some things seemed so far fetched, so random, so made up. And yet it was supposed to be _the_ right answer. When I offered another one, even knowing the official one but disagreeing, I was graded as failing. Hell, I'm pretty certai…

> Some things seemed so far fetched, so random, so made up. And yet it was supposed to be _the_ right answer. When I offered another one, even knowing the official one but disagreeing, I was graded as failing.

I absolutely agree with this. This was a constant source of frustration for me in literature classes. I enjoyed exploring alternative solutions and answers. Most science teachers encouraged that, even though there mostly was a "right" answer and I was missing some (mostly unknown to me) details in alternative theories. Exploring alternatives helps (me) to understand the problem and solution better.

But in the most subjective classes possible - literature analysis - where nobody really knows what the author meant, alternative opinions were considered wrong. And my only task was to repeat the teachers or text books opinion. Frustrating is an understatement.

This part of the article captures the issue perfectly:

> I just put that stanza break in there because when I read it aloud (I’m a performance poet), I pause there. Note: that is not an option among the answers because no one ever asked me why I did it.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#255
post #107

This article is fun to read. Incidentally, my daughter just took a test for a gifted program. She didn't study for it as recommended by our school district. She scored 95% in one subject. But the qualified cut-off rate is 98%! My eyes just rolled looking at that number. That means they only pick 98 and 99 percentiles. For a first grader to score that high, she needs to answer the exam perfectly. If you have some stat…

I took the test in elementary school, and was in the gifted program for almost my entire public school life. I vaguely remember the test, and it doesn't seem like something that could really be studied for - practiced maybe. It was very IQ test like when I took it many years ago. Perhaps it has changed.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private school? Home schooling?

Expensive both and you do have to handle making connections and socialization...

I agree on home schooling having a socialization problem. Private schooling is kind of the opposite: the most measurable effect of private schooling are the connections formed, followed by similar effects of having a more wealthy demographic.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#257
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many school gifted programs follow Mensa requirement of top 2 percentile. I'm not sure the % score was mapped directly to the questions answered correctly.

There are somewhat few notable people from MENSA... It is not a great standard for giftedness, more of a smart people club. People who do things are more often than not either too busy to join this club or see no point in it.

I guess that means what you mean by 'gifted' or 'notable'. Being very creative, having the confidence to express this creativity and most importantly, being both capable and _willing_ to have a high workload over time is probably correlated to having high IQ, but I strongly doubt that they follow in lockstep. Perseverence and hard work seems to be more correlated to "success" than IQ.

IMHO there's a lot of smart people that compromise their health and well-being by forcing themselves to work too hard at being notable, and in itself I don't think these are the best objectives to strive for in life.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#258
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am sorry that your experience was so terrible, but the plural of anecdote is not data. Actually it is. Data is just many individual anecdotes collected. They just need interpretation.

No, it really isn't. Having a representative sample is essential to being able to do statistics. And collecting self-reported anecdotes does not constitute a valid sampling technique. It doesn't matter how your massage your observations afterwards, GIGO still holds and what you received was statistical garbage.

You shouldn't blindly perform standard statistical analysis on such data with the usual techniques. But to declare it statistical garbage is simply going too far.

In fact, anecdotes are the way in which we are able to make sense of the world at all. We do not as individuals do most of our learning via explicit statistical analysis.

Your essential point, however, stands in the sense that one should certainly not act as if anecdotes are statistically unbiased. And your average person is terrible at proper statistical reasoning. People tend to over-emphasize their own experience. (Though this is evolutionarily and historically useful - a feature, not a bug). So, yes, someone presenting their own anecdote or set of anecdotes as data is often misguided.

But there are, in fact, many studies (academic or industrial), that, are, in fact, just that! Collections of anecdotes. Self-reported experiences via surveys, error reports, reviews, and the like, which can be mined for data or looked at to see if there are any patterns.

There are issues such as "WEIRD" (Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic) samples. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioral-and-brain... There are three basic approaches: Ignore the problem and use the results as-is. Declare the sample hopelessly biased and throw it out altogether until you can find a more representative sample. Or acknowledge the bias in the sample, but continue to use it along with careful annotations as a low-confidence best-guess until better data come along. The last is the obvious best approach in an ideal world, though biases such as motivated reasoning and poor reporting by the media often means that reporting such partial results can do more harm than good.

For a more mathematically grounded approach, you could apply Bayesian reasoning: take into account your priors (including the best guess of your expected bias in your sample compared to the distribution from which you are sampling), and figure out exactly how much evidence each anecdote constitutes. It might not be much, but it's something.

I'll close by mentioning that the quote is actually a misquote: http://blog.danwin.com/don-t-forget-the-plural-of-anecdote-i...

“I said ‘The plural of anecdote is data’ some time in the 1969-70 academic year while teaching a graduate seminar at Stanford. The occasion was a student’s dismissal of a simple factual statement–by another student or me–as a mere anecdote." - Wolfinger

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the plural of anecdote is not data. ... and the definition of experience is not anecdote. I think that 2 years of experience qualify as data. Anecdote is when you walk in a street and slip casually in a banana skin once.

I'd actually like to see a study on slipping on banana skins. When I was young I heard the phrase and soon after I tested it. Banana skins aren't that slippery unless the medium under it, or the shoe above it is slippery. Admittedly, this is just my experience, and probably not statistically significant

In my experience, banana peels are quite slippery, especially when they form that 'layer of slime' (when the banana becomes quite ripe) and on a smooth (though not necessarily inherently slippery) surface.

Since you asked for a study, here you go (though I cannot speak for its correctness):

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29253796 https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/trol/7/3/7_147/_pdf

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#260
post #190

I absolutely agree I dropped out of school because of this. Because I failed writing an essay on world war 1 poetry. It’s not right to dissect art and fail a student for “wrong” answers.

It is absolutely possible to misunderstand poetry. (Not saying you did that)

Even if you misunderstand the intent of the author, you can give a well-reasoned interpretation.

From what I remember of the standardized tests, they were either more interested in marking the structure of the content than the content itself, or looking for keywords and marking off a checklist.

To the snarky cynic in me, this might be good training for resume-writing, but not really how you want to teach your high school students to be good at creative interpretation.

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