Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment • Hacker News Board

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#61

Post by Traster » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:44 AM UTC

swarnie_ wrote: post #13

Has anyone else noticed the increased "scrutiny" the US has been putting on Chinese companies recently? Huawei seems to be the biggest example and its worrying me because they are starting to strong arm EU allies to follow in their footsteps. Both Germany and the UK have cleared Huawei to take put in 5g rollouts against the USA's wishes. I'm not sure who to side with here, the company with multiple allegations agains…

Well I'm from the UK and this was actually a big topic of discussion recently because the Prime Minister was briefed at the National Security Council, made a decision to allow Huawei and then it leaked that she was advised by the NSC not to. So it's not exactly uncontroversial.

In my opinion it's very clear that the Trump admin is willing to just blatantly make up accusations to harm their economic adversaries. We all remember Trump sticking tariffs on goods for "National Security" that were nakedly economic protectionism. Having said that, it's also true that both China and the US are putting backdoors in technology to provide espionage opportunities. The question is though - are we likely to end up on the opposite end of the US in a war, or China? Well at the moment China is definitely more of a threat. So it's more dangerous having the Chinese back doors. That may well change though and the UK should absolutely be developing methods to mitigate all infrastructure attacks like these (and obviously putting our own backdoors in ARM chips where we can).

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#62

Post by jeroenhd » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:47 AM UTC

sterlind wrote: post #22

jdsully wrote: post #9

The article takes a lot of words to explain they left a telnet server open. It wasn’t some super secret hidden thing.

Ah, but the article said that the telnet server "could still be launched," not that it was necessarily open. It could be one of those "magic knock" packets that 'launches' telnet, like the backdoor found in some Cisco routers a while back. Also weird is that Huawei insisted on keeping it open until they'd completed testing... does that mean it's phoning home? Or that they have their own technicians coming around to s…

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

Some lazy engineer probably added the feature as a remote monitoring/debugging tool with no regard for security because it needed to work before the next big release. Disabling the feature before the next release would probably break all kinds of support and monitoring, potentially leading to instability or them being unable to service failing equipment.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#63

Post by krn » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:49 AM UTC

0898 wrote: post #18

As Jon Gruber says: "Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” in October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services." "The story presented no confirmable evidence at all, was vehemently denied by all companies involved, has not been confirmed by a single other publication (despite much…

I have explained why Bloomberg's story would have been vehemently denied by all companies involved even if it was completely true:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18655803

Many people in tech, including John Gruber, seem to lack a basic understanding of who makes decisions concerning national security and international politics.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#64

Post by cies » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:50 AM UTC

O_H_E wrote: post #45

I was skeptical about "boycotting" China and Huawei for a long time; just thought that they make cheap phones, and innovative tech, so why not. I changed 180 degrees when I started learning about the growing Chinese influence, how politically corrupt they are, and the excessive violence and human rights violations exercised against minorities. China is growing its economic dominance very quickly. They are gaining man…

I swapped out China for US, Huawei for Google/Apple/Amazon/Facebook, Asian for South American, and it all still made sense.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#65

Post by Uptrenda » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:51 AM UTC

As opposed to backdoors in:

- The SIM card for remote operator app provisioning.

- The baseband processor (that supports over-the-air fireware updates, "typhoon boxes", and other horrible crap)

- The GSM spec, lulz (that allows for binary SMS app pushes signed by certain keys, "silent" SMS to track location, and so on by protocol standard.)

- Obsolete, broken, and purposefully weakened crypto that remains in use for backwards compatibility (and spying.) Not that it would matter anyway because traffic is unencrypted over core links.

Vodafones entire business model depends on backdoors for controlling customer equipment and tracking subscribers. Also, China numba wun!

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#66

Post by icebraining » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:55 AM UTC

jeroenhd wrote: post #27

SiempreViernes wrote: post #19

> Abandoning Huawei for 5G, with Europe already lagging behind China and the U.S., could force them to rip out the supplier’s 4G gear Does anyone know what this is about? Both the need to rip out 4G gear if they don't want to use the new 5G stuff, and also the statement about Europe being behind China and the USA?

I think the idea is that Europe would rip out all Huawei components after the scandal, requiring a revamp of both 4G and 5G networks. I doubt the US is that much ahead of Europe. It's true 5G networks are yet to really roll out, but with the higher population density the 4G coverage and residential internet is better in most of Europe, making the current 4G network suffice for now for many people.

Supposedly higher density makes 5G more important, not less, since it supports way more devices in the same area, while it doesn't really improve on the coverage distance, which is more important for more rural areas.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#67

Post by BLKNSLVR » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 10:01 AM UTC

O_H_E wrote: post #45

I was skeptical about "boycotting" China and Huawei for a long time; just thought that they make cheap phones, and innovative tech, so why not. I changed 180 degrees when I started learning about the growing Chinese influence, how politically corrupt they are, and the excessive violence and human rights violations exercised against minorities. China is growing its economic dominance very quickly. They are gaining man…

"Chinese influence, how politically corrupt they are, and the excessive violence and human rights violations exercised against minorities."

I know your heart is in the right place, but you could replace China with "The US" or "Russia" or "North Korea" or "colonial Britain" or almost any other country and it would be true. Those who wouldn't be worthy of the list are those who've never had the resources or opportunity to make the list.

It's sad, but I believe it's pretty close to the truth.

In relation to China, "The West" gifted it the power it now wields by outsourcing manufacturing there because cheap labor meant much higher percentage profits for all the savvy business owners who didn't want to pay local rates. And didn't they do well over the last 40-odd years! Can't deny it being smart business back then. Also can't deny that China's current world power status wasn't predictable 40-odd years ago if businesses everywhere decided to follow suit. And they did, and here we are, and all the countries that host companies that contributed to this are now having a cry about the actions of the monster they profited from creating.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#68

Post by neximo64 » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 10:05 AM UTC

0898 wrote: post #18

As Jon Gruber says: "Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” in October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services." "The story presented no confirmable evidence at all, was vehemently denied by all companies involved, has not been confirmed by a single other publication (despite much…

How do you know for sure that the story is false? As you've mentioned Bloomberg hasn't corrected or retracted the story. Governments and companies have in the past denied things that have been true.

Do you seriously think Huawei vehemently denying that it has backdoors in its technology makes it true all of a sudden?

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#69

Post by thenickdude » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 10:05 AM UTC

negamax wrote: post #15

I can’t tell if this is true or an organized smear campaign against Huawei for monetary reasons.

If it was true it would be trivial and painless for them to provide proof. They haven't, therefore it's misinformation.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#70

Post by pmontra » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 10:07 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #48

O_H_E wrote: post #45

I was skeptical about "boycotting" China and Huawei for a long time; just thought that they make cheap phones, and innovative tech, so why not. I changed 180 degrees when I started learning about the growing Chinese influence, how politically corrupt they are, and the excessive violence and human rights violations exercised against minorities. China is growing its economic dominance very quickly. They are gaining man…

What do you suggest we do? I'm asking in good faith; I think the worries of the influence of the CPC in the world are valid, but China can't simply be boycotted like any small country, and it's also not clear to me those boycotts (Cuba, Iran, etc) really effect change.

We can choose who we want to be spied by.