The Remote Manifesto • Hacker News Board

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#21

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 7:44 AM UTC

hnarn wrote: post #2

> For example, onboarding can be more difficult when you're remote, because it involves more self-learning and you're not physically with your new coworkers and fellow new hires. This can cause the first month in a remote role to feel lonely, especially if you're transitioning from a traditional office setting. As someone whose primary experience from going between jobs in IT is that almost the singularly most import…

> but beyond that it feels like there are so many issues with not being accountable for your employees social well-being that it's hard to know where to start.

People looking for remote work - which today does require you to go out of your way to find it - are people who quite voluntarily and explicitly don't want the employer to provide social life for them. If colleagues and office banter is what one seeks, one looks for jobs on-site.

EDIT: Different people have different needs at different stages of their lives. Personally, I went from on-site to remote, but I do envision going back to on-site in a couple of years - mainly because nothing interesting (to me, c.f. my profile) seems to happen on remote jobs, unless you're an entrepreneur making your own interesting thing.

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#22

Post by vbsteven » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 7:50 AM UTC

I wonder how some of the all remote companies handle the legal side of things when it comes to paying salaries and contracts.

I've been working as a (partly remote depending on customer) freelancer/contractor for 5 years with my own legal entity setup in Europe to do invoicing and handle my finances. I'm not willing to give that up yet but the thought of working for an all remote company for a longer period than the typical 3 to 6 month contract sounds interesting.

Are these full remote companies flexible in regards to this? Are they open to me keeping my own business entity and invoicing them while still being regarded as a full member of the team?

edit: For example on the Gitlab jobs page and salary calculator they clearly state that for my home country they expect me to be an employee of their Gitlab BV entity which is a no-go for me.

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#23

Post by onion2k » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 7:55 AM UTC

baroffoos wrote: post #10

jypepin wrote: post #6

My observation is that there are 2 schools of thought about remote salaries. One side will pay SF-based competitive salaries no matter where you are, are the other side will have a "cost of living" adjusted salary. Gitlab is in the latter group. I recently thought about it, and was wondering if this could create some bias / unfair preferential treatment when interviewing and competing with other candidates. If candid…

That bias already exists, if 2 candidates with the same skill apply and one is asking for a lower pay then they are likely to be picked over the other. Why pay more for the same skill? If you want to have higher chances of being accepted then lowering your costs so you can lower your required pay is a good strategy. I'm fairly sure the gitlab ceo commented before that they don't want to pay people way way over the lo…

Why pay more for the same skill?

Because people aren't stupid and when they realise they're being paid less than they're worth they'll leave, and then you'll have to go through the pain of recruiting someone else.

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#24

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 7:56 AM UTC

tnolet wrote: post #7

However much I like Gitlab, the “disadvantages” section is a joke. Working alone with only video, chat and email is a huge fundamental change in how work is done and I’m pretty sure we as a society don’t really know yet what impact it has on social development, interpersonal skills, empathy, sympathy etc. they should at least acknowledge that.

> Working alone with only video, chat and email is a huge fundamental change in how work is done

Is it? Since the dawn of time, plenty of jobs were done solo for most of the time.

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#25

Post by rofo1 » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 8:01 AM UTC

I've been working remotely (for companies that are not all 100% remote) for some time now and other than the occasional communication problems, there is simply no downside to it (for me). I am much more focused, I do better work, in a better health mentally and physically (I can exercise since I can organize my time), I don't waste time on commute.

The people I work with are interested in results and that's what I deliver. Other than that, they are not demanding that I organize my time in a certain way, or that I change the hours when I work, or anything like that. Of course, when I need to work together with my colleagues on a certain problem, I make sure that I adapt to their timetable.

They just care about results. And I think that makes the most sense. If one day I run a company, that's what I would care about: can this guy deliver? Yes or no?

Of course, one should be a decent human being - that goes without saying.

The whole "friends from work" thing doesn't make sense to me. I go to work to work, not find friends there. That seems to be unpopular opinion, but seriously, why do we mix those things up?

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#26

Post by ttoinou » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 8:09 AM UTC

vbsteven wrote: post #22

I wonder how some of the all remote companies handle the legal side of things when it comes to paying salaries and contracts. I've been working as a (partly remote depending on customer) freelancer/contractor for 5 years with my own legal entity setup in Europe to do invoicing and handle my finances. I'm not willing to give that up yet but the thought of working for an all remote company for a longer period than the…

Wondering the same things !

Also, it's not really "employed" if you are still a freelancer / business contractor. You can leave when you feel like you want to leave, so the employer has the risk of missing people to finish each projects...

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#27

Post by sime2009 » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 8:17 AM UTC

fyfy18 wrote: post #18

tnolet wrote: post #7

However much I like Gitlab, the “disadvantages” section is a joke. Working alone with only video, chat and email is a huge fundamental change in how work is done and I’m pretty sure we as a society don’t really know yet what impact it has on social development, interpersonal skills, empathy, sympathy etc. they should at least acknowledge that.

There are plenty of existing jobs where people have to spend many hours by themselves. Think about truck drivers, they may spend weeks alone with nothing more than a few minutes chat to a fellow trucker they see at a truck stop.

Those solo jobs are a small minority of the workforce.

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#28

Post by rvense » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 8:19 AM UTC

codegeek wrote: post #4

I feel like that whole Remote issue has become too binary. Either people advocate for complete remote option OR employers mostly don't provide any flexibility when it comes to work location or schedules. I personally believe that human interaction is a key to our well being since humans are not designed to stay in a remote room/office somewhere by themselves. I am not quite on the 100% remote thing to be honest and o…

My employer explicitly doesn't care where I work from or when or how.

So some days I'm focused at home or at my desk, some days it's (endless) meetings and usually I go in, some days (especially when in a design phase) I walk, think, and work in various parks and cafes... and some days I go to the office and sit in the common areas with a big PLEASE DISTURB sign around my neck. I'd rather not have to give up any of these.

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#29

Post by lnsru » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 8:21 AM UTC

fyfy18 wrote: post #18

tnolet wrote: post #7

However much I like Gitlab, the “disadvantages” section is a joke. Working alone with only video, chat and email is a huge fundamental change in how work is done and I’m pretty sure we as a society don’t really know yet what impact it has on social development, interpersonal skills, empathy, sympathy etc. they should at least acknowledge that.

There are plenty of existing jobs where people have to spend many hours by themselves. Think about truck drivers, they may spend weeks alone with nothing more than a few minutes chat to a fellow trucker they see at a truck stop.

That‘s not true. Truckers have radios (at least in Europe) and they they are interacting with other truckers in radius of ~10 miles. I had radio in my car and and it was even entertaining sometimes. I could ask advice, ask for fuel when I was empty, ask for police checkpoints. On private channel one can have virtually private conversation.

Re: The Remote Manifesto

#30

Post by vbsteven » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 8:29 AM UTC

ttoinou wrote: post #26

vbsteven wrote: post #22

I wonder how some of the all remote companies handle the legal side of things when it comes to paying salaries and contracts. I've been working as a (partly remote depending on customer) freelancer/contractor for 5 years with my own legal entity setup in Europe to do invoicing and handle my finances. I'm not willing to give that up yet but the thought of working for an all remote company for a longer period than the…

Wondering the same things ! Also, it's not really "employed" if you are still a freelancer / business contractor. You can leave when you feel like you want to leave, so the employer has the risk of missing people to finish each projects...

I get that, that is why I ask. I'm interested in becoming a full member of the team and fully integrate but I would like to keep my company setup just for the legal side of things & payment. I don't mind having a longer term contract with a well defined termination period etc.

Another possibility would be to become an employee on payroll and keep my company active on the side but that makes things more complicated regarding taxes and I would lose the benefit of receiving all payments through my company and keep most of the money in there to reinvest and build its assets.