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I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

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Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#151

Post by krustyburger »

Chunklight wrote: post #131
m0zg wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's probably because you've read it in English. For the life of me I don't get why non-Russian people read Russian classical literature. Just don't. It is true that there aren't really any Western authors of the same stature as Dostoevsky or Tolstoy, but really, you aren't really reading what they wrote. Their work requires quite a bit of thought, and that thought requires quite a bit built-in stuff that a native…

A bilingual friend of mine says Russian literature is better in French translation than English.

If they’re only bilingual they aren’t able to read the original Russian. So their opinion as to which translation is ‘better’ may not be too useful.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#152

Post by Veen »

kortilla wrote: post #149
Veen wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience of programming is making a turtle move around on a screen, so programming is dumb. My experience of math is working out how fast trains traveling towards each other are going, so math is dumb. My experience of chemistry is making a bit of paper change color when dipped in vinegar, so chemistry is dumb. And so on ad nauseam.

Those all proved useful though using real empirical based systems. If your programming class was, “what do you think the author meant by this line of code?” with no evidence to support any kind of guess, then yes it would be dumb.

As I said in another comment, at this level "literary criticism" is intended to develop rudimentary skills of textual interpretation. You learn what symbolism is and are asked to produce some examples. It doesn't matter what the poem "actually" means any more than it matters that you're ignoring friction and variable speeds and the changing mass of trains as they burn fuel when you work out how fast they're going in school math tests. When you get to more advanced textual analysis, you have to justify readings based on the work as a whole, the writer's oeuvre, historical context, linguistic concerns, philosophical frameworks, and so on.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#153

Post by thaumaturgy »

jtms wrote: post #139
_7fvc wrote: post #107

This article is fun to read. Incidentally, my daughter just took a test for a gifted program. She didn't study for it as recommended by our school district. She scored 95% in one subject. But the qualified cut-off rate is 98%! My eyes just rolled looking at that number. That means they only pick 98 and 99 percentiles. For a first grader to score that high, she needs to answer the exam perfectly. If you have some stat…

I was in the gifted program when I was in elementary school and I don’t recommend it. It took a kid like me who was already prone to social isolation and isolated him further. I voluntarily left the program after 2 years and was playing catch up socially and I wasn’t any better off academically. Don’t put your kids in that program.

I was fortunate enough to get into a GATE extracurricular program when I was in elementary school in the East Bay, a long time ago. In my case, I got to socialize more with some peer groups, visit a planetarium, make oddball things, get a good grasp of the sciences way ahead of the regular school curriculum, and participate in a problem-solving program that influenced my thinking for the rest of my life.

BUT: in retrospect, those programs are mostly for kids who just happened to be fortunate enough to be born into the right circumstances at the right time. East Bay public schools were pretty good at the time, I was born just in time to learn about computers just ahead of the rest of the world, I had a somewhat stable home life, and my family supported learning and nerdy hobbies.

I was a social outcast for most of my youth too, but that had less to do with GATE and more to do with my family's obsession with being smarter than everyone else, which made me an insufferable, lazy little jerkwad. It took getting out into the world in my late teens to begin realizing just how much of an idiot I really was.

So, YMMV, but if I were a parent I'd at least give a local GATE program a try. (But also sports.)

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#154

Post by ignasl »

m0zg wrote: post #103
legohead wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read Crime and Punishment for the first time recently. found it quite boring and with limited meaning. but I am a 40 year old man and understood the concepts the book was introducing a long time ago. I feel like with the advent of the internet, shocking concepts/ideas are hard to come by. I'm sure ideas in the book were provocative "back then," but nowadays, not so much. I even watched some lectures on youtube disc…

That's probably because you've read it in English. For the life of me I don't get why non-Russian people read Russian classical literature. Just don't. It is true that there aren't really any Western authors of the same stature as Dostoevsky or Tolstoy, but really, you aren't really reading what they wrote. Their work requires quite a bit of thought, and that thought requires quite a bit built-in stuff that a native…

No need for gatekeeping. Maybe you won’t get 100% but you still get close to russian culture if you read War an Peace and that’s precisely why it’s so interesting and fun. It expands your world view, show you new points of view and you get interesting story too. Now it seems that you propose only reading your native country authors?

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#155

Post by varjag »

m0zg wrote: post #103
legohead wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read Crime and Punishment for the first time recently. found it quite boring and with limited meaning. but I am a 40 year old man and understood the concepts the book was introducing a long time ago. I feel like with the advent of the internet, shocking concepts/ideas are hard to come by. I'm sure ideas in the book were provocative "back then," but nowadays, not so much. I even watched some lectures on youtube disc…

That's probably because you've read it in English. For the life of me I don't get why non-Russian people read Russian classical literature. Just don't. It is true that there aren't really any Western authors of the same stature as Dostoevsky or Tolstoy, but really, you aren't really reading what they wrote. Their work requires quite a bit of thought, and that thought requires quite a bit built-in stuff that a native…

Sorry, but to appreciate War and Peace, a good command of French is more helpful than Russian.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#156

Post by skookumchuck »

bunderbunder wrote: post #81
skookumchuck wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tests are one of the hardest ways of doing so I've never understood how someone could master a subject and yet be unable to answer any questions about it. In my experience, people who did well on tests tended to understand the topic, and the people who didn't do well made excuses.

I guess, but, all the same, I see a world of difference between a topical test, designed by a teacher, to measure your understanding of what they just taught you, and these standardized tests that have become so common. For one, the latter are often bullshit, as TFA points out. For two, they measure all sorts of stuff aside from actual proficiency. If nothing else, unless they took all the same classes - literally th…

Maybe the test was really asking you which was the normal frame of reference. Of course, the direction would also be reversed if you were in the southern hemisphere, or were on a planet that spun the other way, or maybe a planet in a binary star system, etc.

I would expect the intelligent test taker to understand the test was not a trick, and that unstated assumptions mean use the defaults.

As for math, there are many ways to teach math, but 2+2=4 in all of them. It is reasonable to assume it is base 10, not base 3, unless the test said "in base 3".

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#157

Post by benj111 »

gatherhunterer wrote: post #78
smt88 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, it makes all works of art more personal and interesting when you read into them. Even if it's not what the author intended, it may be what makes the work enjoyable to you. But I agree that forcing your interpretation on everyone else is pointless and often irritating.

Literary analysis is overly criticized due to poor teaching of humanities. I disagree with some of the interpretations that I have heard of major literary works but no one has ever forced those ideas on me, I have never been censured for proposing an interpretation that differs from another. Bad teaching is a shame but dismissing an entire academic field because you had a poor experience as a child is self-aggrandize…

In this situation it isn't the teaching, it's the test.

The test demands an answer, whereas good teaching would be a discussion.

I'd prefer my kids to finish school knowing how to read and enjoy poetry, than knowing how to complete multiple choice tests.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#158

Post by rcxdude »

_7fvc wrote: post #107

This article is fun to read. Incidentally, my daughter just took a test for a gifted program. She didn't study for it as recommended by our school district. She scored 95% in one subject. But the qualified cut-off rate is 98%! My eyes just rolled looking at that number. That means they only pick 98 and 99 percentiles. For a first grader to score that high, she needs to answer the exam perfectly. If you have some stat…

is the 98% a percentile or a percentage of available marks? In that case it does seem like a poorly designed test. Tests I've seen which are designed to discriminate those at the high end of ability tend to be much harder, not have pass requirements in terms of marks (they may still take the top 2 percent of the curve, but this will correspond to ~75% of available marks instead of the high 90%)

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#159

Post by AllegedAlec »

EFruit wrote: post #36

>Texas' STAAR tests are administered in part by Pearson Assessments, a testing company that Holbrook called a "sadistic behemoth." I have never heard a single good thing about Pearson. Having been assessed by them in Public schools, I think the consensus is well-earned.

Their textbooks are pretty good. Campbell and Reece is still the bible for biologists around the world.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#160

Post by varjag »

p1esk wrote: post #112
m0zg wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's probably because you've read it in English. For the life of me I don't get why non-Russian people read Russian classical literature. Just don't. It is true that there aren't really any Western authors of the same stature as Dostoevsky or Tolstoy, but really, you aren't really reading what they wrote. Their work requires quite a bit of thought, and that thought requires quite a bit built-in stuff that a native…

I disagree. War and Peace was written 150 years ago and depicts events happening over 200 years ago - the difference between that society and the one you grew up in is far greater than the difference between modern Russia and modern US. Just to give one example (ironic in this context): the language usually spoken by most characters is not Russian, it’s French! Something like 5% of the novel is literally in French, a…

Exactly. There are more footnotes than in New English Bible.
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