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Ask HN: Are you put off building something because it already exists?

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Re: Ask HN: Are you put off building something because it already exists?

#261

Post by JohnFen »

hw wrote: post #81
sheetjs wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also worth noting the downside of scale: some opportunities are "too small" for a Microsoft or Google to pursue. Google revenue for 2018 was $136.8B. Extra effort to possibly address a small niche segment of a market, that would improve revenue by $1M per year, is too small to draw anyone's attention. However, that same $1M/yr is enough to sustain a bootstrapped business and even possibly build the credibility to rai…

Don't forget that large companies and established players typically are extremely bad in listening to their customers or providing good support since it doesn't scale well for them to do so. Even if the product is the same, you can steal marketshare by being responsive to your customers and being able to iterate at a quicker pace than the larger competitors. Competition isn't bad - that just means there's a market la…

Yes, this is a great point.

As a small businessperson, I find it's critical to be aware of the different strengths and weaknesses that come with being big or small, and to leverage them to your advantage.

My favorite one-liner about the difference is: small companies make it possible, big companies make it cheap.

Re: Ask HN: Are you put off building something because it already exists?

#262

Post by ska »

JohnFen wrote: post #239
Iv wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a very enlightening talk with a sales manager at the first company I worked for. We were pioneering some augmented reality applications and really had a few worlds first. As an engineer, I had thought that guaranteed us a market. That guy explained to me that quite the opposite, that forced us to "create" the market. A thing that is like exploring a jungle with a machete, whereas marketing an existing product i…

> That guy explained to me that quite the opposite, that forced us to "create" the market. Indeed. That's the underlying reason for the hoary old truism that "the pioneers get all the arrows". In terms of business, you really don't want to be first to market. You want to be second or third, so you can learn from all the first's mistakes, and benefit from the market-building that the pioneers engaged in.

I don't think it's true that you always don't want to be first. It is true that it is very different being first, and requires different skills, timelines, etc. Also worth remembering that a company doing a very serviceable 3rd to market may not actually be able to pull off 1st, and that's ok too.

Re: Ask HN: Are you put off building something because it already exists?

#263

Post by JohnFen »

ska wrote: post #262
JohnFen wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That guy explained to me that quite the opposite, that forced us to "create" the market. Indeed. That's the underlying reason for the hoary old truism that "the pioneers get all the arrows". In terms of business, you really don't want to be first to market. You want to be second or third, so you can learn from all the first's mistakes, and benefit from the market-building that the pioneers engaged in.

I don't think it's true that you always don't want to be first. It is true that it is very different being first, and requires different skills, timelines, etc. Also worth remembering that a company doing a very serviceable 3rd to market may not actually be able to pull off 1st, and that's ok too.

Well, yes, as soon as absolutes like "always" are used, the statement they're used in is most likely to be false.

That said, the odds aren't in favor of the ones who are first to market (although patent ownership can change the odds significantly).

Re: Ask HN: Are you put off building something because it already exists?

#264

Post by Etheryte »

lioeters wrote: post #178

There's a large company (30000~ employees, market cap "north of $3 billion") called Rocket Internet [0], based mostly (solely?) on the business strategy of building something that already exists. Seeing how successful they are, it seems the "uniqueness of a product/service idea" is not such an important factor as it's commonly considered. Perhaps it's more about the execution, how the idea is implemented - UX, market…

Worth mentioning that they only work in a very specific niche — e-commerce sites. That's literally the only thing they do, although admittedly very well.

Re: Ask HN: Are you put off building something because it already exists?

#265

Post by biztos »

mk4p wrote: post #214
biztos wrote: post #194

I had, or I guess still have, an idea for Yet Another Web Framework. I've written four versions of it in three languages already. I kept running into a problem: if it was complex enough to realize my full vision, then I wouldn't have time to maintain it, especially if it got any traction at all. Plus, for each single thing I wanted it to do, there were pretty well established things you could use instead. I enjoyed p…

I think someone else did it: https://neocities.org/

Indeed! And probably much truer to the original than I would have done.

I wonder if there is room for multiple flavors of this idea. IIRC somebody had something similar that was text-only a while back.

I suspect the Faceborg has let so much air out of the Web that there might not be, but I love the idea that at least in principle anybody with $5/mo for a server could create a *Cities tuned to their own preferences, and people might show up and participate. All free and in the open.

Re: Ask HN: Are you put off building something because it already exists?

#266

Post by biztos »

rlopezcc wrote: post #200
biztos wrote: post #194

I had, or I guess still have, an idea for Yet Another Web Framework. I've written four versions of it in three languages already. I kept running into a problem: if it was complex enough to realize my full vision, then I wouldn't have time to maintain it, especially if it got any traction at all. Plus, for each single thing I wanted it to do, there were pretty well established things you could use instead. I enjoyed p…

> GeoCities back but updated for all the cool stupid things you can do in the modern Web. A place for your weird taste in CSS, in public Sounds like Neocities

Oh yeah, I had forgotten about NeoCities, though I did know about them at some point! Thanks for the tip.

Re: Ask HN: Are you put off building something because it already exists?

#267

Post by mlloyd »

mceachen wrote: post #68

I voluntarily entered one of the most saturated markets that I'm aware of. It's literally a cliché to "do a photo startup." That rumbling dark cloud of well-funded, well-established competitors on the horizon, and (perhaps my mistaken) belief that I see gaps of sunshine where I can succeed, is one reason I get out of bed every morning and persevere. That, and my wife needs the product. https://blog.photostructure.com…

I wish the post you linked to had some sort of demo of what the software does. Even if it's just a quick gif that runs through landing and clicking a few options.

I think I get it from the post, but seeing it would be so much more helpful.

Re: Ask HN: Are you put off building something because it already exists?

#268

Post by amelius »

alexobenauer wrote: post #38

Here's the recommendation I give to students when they ask me this question (it's a common one!): You come up with a brilliant idea, you obsess over it, you Google some info, and on your screen lies your idea, being done by someone else, for the last two years. You’re all too familiar with that sinking feeling in your stomach that follows. You abandon the idea almost immediately after all that excitement and ideation…

> When I do this, once I do Google for existing solutions, I usually find that all the other things I came up with in the ensuing week are far better than what’s already out there. I have more innovative ideas for where it could go next; I have a unique value proposition that the other folks haven’t figured out yet.

No, you don't know what ideas the existing company had (that were simply not implemented yet). Perhaps they had brainstorm sessions too.

Also, what prevents them from copying your ideas?

I don't want to sound like a downer, but there is simply no denying that they are one step ahead of you. They already have a working implementation of your main idea. You can still beat them, but it is like being behind 0-1 before the start of the match.

Re: Ask HN: Are you put off building something because it already exists?

#269

Post by alexobenauer »

amelius wrote: post #268
alexobenauer wrote: post #38

Here's the recommendation I give to students when they ask me this question (it's a common one!): You come up with a brilliant idea, you obsess over it, you Google some info, and on your screen lies your idea, being done by someone else, for the last two years. You’re all too familiar with that sinking feeling in your stomach that follows. You abandon the idea almost immediately after all that excitement and ideation…

> When I do this, once I do Google for existing solutions, I usually find that all the other things I came up with in the ensuing week are far better than what’s already out there. I have more innovative ideas for where it could go next; I have a unique value proposition that the other folks haven’t figured out yet. No, you don't know what ideas the existing company had (that were simply not implemented yet). Perhaps…

> No, you don't know what ideas the existing company had (that were simply not implemented yet). Perhaps they had brainstorm sessions too.

Of course they did. All I'm saying is that by giving yourself the opportunity to explore your ideas in a green field, having not seen others' implementations, you give yourself the opportunity to extend your idea into new directions that others may not be exploring yet (maybe they didn't think of it, or maybe they aren't attacking that direction, or maybe they want to but they just haven't gotten there yet).

> Also, what prevents them from copying your ideas?

Nothing. But also, nothing really prevents anyone from copying any of your ideas, whether or not similar solutions exist.

> they are one step ahead of you

At their game, yeah. In my experience, if I give it a week, I end up exploring a pretty different game anyway (different niche or audience, different way to solve it, etc.). They'd only be one step ahead of my game if they decided to pivot away from theirs and into my direction.

Re: Ask HN: Are you put off building something because it already exists?

#270

Post by Can_Not »

My inspiration for creating things may often not be "let's make X exist", but rather "like X, but good". I make PWAs and APIs, so unfortunately making a better Civilization V or a slack that performs like AIM isn't going to fit in my schedule.

What puts me off is usually the lack of a usable API. Or, if closed source app X has a gorilla that's holding the banana wrong, I might have to recreate the entire jungle from scratch just to get some basic architectural or UX flow fixed.

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