I hope projects will get rid of JIRA now!
And replace it with what?
GitHub issues / pull requests / projects / wikis... the standard tools GitHub offers to manage projects.
Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community
181–190 of 255 posts
Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's literally not my stance. And I've literally said that it's not my stance—in a comment (that should have never been necessary to begin with) meant to remove all doubt. And you know this. To continue saying otherwise (explicitly, even) is a case of outright intellectual dishonesty.
It's you backing off of a claim you clearly now know is nonsense once someone challenged you on it.
My phone number is listed on my home page. Please give me a call.
Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community
#183It confuses me why so many traditionally pro-FOSS projects move to a not-free-nor-open tool like GitHub. Do they think that they’ll get enough new contributors this way to offset the (more than slight) irony?
The number of hard line FOSS folks is really quite small. Personally I would be hard pressed to bother contributing to a project not on GitHub at this point. There is a certain workflow and interaction model that GitHub projects use that non-GitHub ones do not and it is simply not worth the time investment to learn those other projects. Not only that but it allows me to easily point at my work and go "I did that" whe…
> Personally I would be hard pressed to bother contributing to a project not on GitHub at this point.
Personally I find it a pain to deal with github-only projects. Why should I have to sign up to a social network for coders when I could just send a patch to the development mailing list? It's more depressing than surprising that Microsoft paid $7.5B for that.
Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm kind of cynical about this sort of thing and I don't think the hosting really changes the quality of contributions. The amount, maybe, but you get a lot of crappy drive-bys that are about one particular but very enthusiastic person's pet peeves, which probably don't affect the wider userbase. The drive-bys require a lot of work to integrate for relatively little profit. Mediagoblin is dying not so much because it…
> I'm kind of cynical about this sort of thing and I don't think the hosting really changes the quality of contributions. Yeah. We've had this topic come up a number of times in the Wine project. We still use a mailing list and git-am patches for our contributions. We have a few hard-liner FOSS types who would strongly reject a GitHub solution (including myself), but a self-hosted Gitlab solution may be accepted. But…
You would be surprised by how big the entry barrier is when you have to use a mailing list to do anything.
Just as an example, when inkscape project migrated to GitLab [1] , I've noticed something that was not optimal in their CI definition and contributed a change right away. In a "mailing list" based development, that CI script would not be visible. Most projects even hide their internal tooling.
Also, unless you were born in a certain age and had access to internet since X, there is a good chance you never have been exposed to Mailman or how the mailing list flow works.
Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community
#185Apparently, one of the big motivating reasons for this was "cost". > The foundation’s 2018 five-year strategic plan noted that infrastructure services account for more than 80 percent of the total ASF expense budget, adding: “Increasingly, project communities have infrastructure requirements that strain the capabilities of the ASF.” > The report noted that, given burgeoning costs, encouraging the use of more external…
> unlike a couple other major non-profits I happily would name in any other context
Can this reply be the context? Which ones?
Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
The number of hard line FOSS folks is really quite small. Personally I would be hard pressed to bother contributing to a project not on GitHub at this point. There is a certain workflow and interaction model that GitHub projects use that non-GitHub ones do not and it is simply not worth the time investment to learn those other projects. Not only that but it allows me to easily point at my work and go "I did that" whe…
> Personally I would be hard pressed to bother contributing to a project not on GitHub at this point. Personally I find it a pain to deal with github-only projects. Why should I have to sign up to a social network for coders when I could just send a patch to the development mailing list? It's more depressing than surprising that Microsoft paid $7.5B for that.
Why should I have to sign up to potentially dozens of mailing lists to track the projects I’m interested in when I can track them all in ine place with that ne login?
Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
Git start before mercurial.
You're right. They were both released extremely close together, and I don't remember why I associate Mercurial ideas as being something Git learned from. Maybe I'm wrong about it.
Maybe you are thinking of Monotone. It shares some design, such as referencing commits by their hashes and zero copy branching.
I think Linus said at some point that if only performance would have been sufficient for the Linux kernel, there would have been no git (but don't quote me on that).
Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not a direct consequence of anything that was said. It's a possible implication - in the conversational sense of implication, not the logical sense - but those get to be disclaimed.
His stance is literally that using a GUI is harder. That isn't a consequence, it's his core position.
FWIW, I certainly didn't read his comment that way, and in light of his explicit denial that that's what he intended maybe you should reconsider whether there are alternate interpretations available.
Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Ideological and eventual practical problems too" is way too general. The very specific flash-point was Linus throwing an unjustified hissy-fit defending Larry McVoy of BitKeeper being difficult about Andrew Tridgel (Tridge of Samba fame) "reverse engineering" the data traffic of Bitkeeper for inter-operability (really just sniffing client packets with wireshark or something). Whether the name "git" pertains to Tridg…
There were more people having problems than Tridge. I was there, and I was told in private mail by the author of BitKeeper that I did not have permission to use it, because of my work on respository analysis software that looked like it would get too close for comfort. That's without any reverse engineering. I never used BitKeeper, or connected to the server, or read the infamous "help" text. It meant I couldn't part…
My apologies. I didn't want to gainsay your claim, but I've noticed I've been getting older [1] and things that happened "recently" and "should be common knowledge", are not, in fact, exactly that for everyone.
I wanted to point out that it was not a very loose "pragmatic and/or ideological" argument back then, but there were very specific actions and respected actors involved.
You obviously, being directly involved, are aware of the specifics, but it might be easy for a casual reader to place it in a "Ah, the Free Software people were ruining a good free thing even back then" context, whereas pretty much the opposite happened.
[1] and you too, by implication, for which my apologies as well.
Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the "easy" path, you're neglecting the lack of standardization in the "attach/upload" step. For some projects it might be as simple as "create an account on their bug tracker and open a new bug and attach the patch", but for others it might be "dig through their website to find a mailing list, dig more to figure out how to subscribe to that mailing list, send email". and then you might: "get a bounce because the p…
I agree with some of what you say—one caveat is that you're still on the hook, for example, for finding out which GitHub URL/repo maps to the project you want to contribute to. In practice, this is roughly on par with the difficulty of finding the link to the self-hosted Bugzilla instance. It's a shame that decentralized single sign-on is still such a disaster, since that's essentially the one thing that GitHub has a…
I'm not sure it's the same... when I search for issues and contributions... I almost always google for github projectname etc. When it's in GH, usually it's easy enough (unless issues are closed because they're managed with a different repo).
For the most part it's the same workflow. Also, if it's a trivial change (like fixing/appending something in documentation) you don't even need to leave the browser.
Discovery is another issue... it's far more easy to use Github semi-socially than most other platforms. Something I both love and hate is that GH doesn't have a direct message functionality. On the one hand, I wouldn't want to be bothered with a ton of end user emails for the same issues over and over... on another, after you've waited a week for a bug fixing PR, it's not fun either.