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Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

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Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#181

Post by stale2002 »

N_trglctc_joe wrote: post #167
stale2002 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is some evidence: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/11/22/american... So. Now that I have shown you the evidence about how people in the city are more likely to have attempted to reduce their meat consumption, are you willing to admit that your initial skepticism was completely and totally wrong? It seemed pretty obvious the the initial conclusion of "people eat less meat in cities" is a true stateme…

>Now that I have shown you the evidence about how people in the city are more likely to have attempted to reduce their meat consumption, are you willing to admit that your initial skepticism was completely and totally wrong? Regardless of the accuracy of the original statement, I feel as though "initial skepticism" is ALWAYS the correct response to a claim made on the internet. If anybody is going to claim anything o…

> feel as though "initial skepticism" is ALWAYS the correct response

Here is the problem with that. I don't think you understand how toxic an eternal skeptic is to a conversation.

An eternal skeptic is someone who never makes any positive claims or reasons as for why they disagree with something that someone else said. All they do is repeat, over and over again "ummm, why don't you prove it!".

Yeah, no. If you disagree with something, then the honest thing to do is say specifically why you disagree with it, and to make positive claims of your own.

If someone just sits back, and refuses to engage with the argument, or give evidence as for why the other person is wrong, then what I usually do is give them the evidence that they asked for, and then make fun of them for not knowing about it in the first place.

Because if their initial skepticism was correct in the first place, then the skeptic would have had the guts to explain why they disagree, instead of just being a coward, by only repeating "prove it" a dozen times over.

It is ridiculous to expect someone to give a 30 page essay of facts and figures, for every single claim that you make.

Instead, the honest thing to do, is to say specifically what you think is incorrect, and give your reasons why, and then the conversation can go from there.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#182

Post by moate »

kuusisto wrote: post #145
moate wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data or it didn't happen.

Total percentages of vegetarian and vegan Americans do appear to be quite low, and they skew more liberal and lower income[1]. I'm not the person you're responding to, and it requires some extrapolation, but the liberal skew does at least suggest that vegetarians may skew "metropolitan" as well. [1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/238328/snapshot-few-americans-v...

I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but "skew metropolitan"(your point) and "aren't common outside of certain metro areas"(op point) don't feel like the same rhetorical weight.

I mean my thoughts are the whole "Vermont Hippy" seems like a thing, and IDK that Vermont even has a meto area (/s).

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#183

Post by criddell »

everdev wrote: post #40

I wonder what the cost basis is of an Impossible Burger vs. a beef patty. The meat industry has built up some economies of scale but it's hard to believe that raising and slaughtering cows is the most cost effective way to feed people protein.

The meat industry are placing some pretty big bets on meat substitutes. Tyson owns 5% of Beyond Meat.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#184

Post by TehCorwiz »

dghughes wrote: post #158

The Impossible Burger uses coconut oil which is 90% saturated fat the highest of any oil. Saturated fat causes a spike in bad cholesterol. Beef fat has saturated fat but it's only at 40% of the total. Even heme the thing that makes the burger look bloody is even worse foe health than the coconut oil. Of all the things in red meat heme is the thing that causes the most harm and it's in the Impossible Burger. I'm not v…

Could you provide some sources? Also, quantity is a big factor. It may use coconut oil, but still have less oil/fat than beef.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#185

Post by merpnderp »

TillE wrote: post #150
rmason wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America only one or two percent are vegetarians. In England it's over twenty percent! That's the reason it pays to cater to them. My sister is a vegan and on my urging she tried an impossible burger when it first came to San Francisco and she loved it. But Burger King is cooking the impossible burger on the same grill upon which they're grilling the meat. I haven't asked her but I'm guessing most vegans won't be b…

Veganism isn't an allergy, and it's not about maintaining perfect bodily purity. It's about making ethical choices. Most people aren't going to worry about incidental "contamination".

Sounds like a religion. I get not wanting factory farmed meat, but what's wrong with hunting meat for yourself? In the end we're all meat for something, even if it's just the worms.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#186

Post by nabnob »

chrisco255 wrote: post #135
honkycat wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a vegan. But I do hold a lot of environmental values. There is a LOT of interesting writing on the economy of the meat industrial complex. In essence: It is totally propped up by with subsidies from the US Government. They LOSE money on every cow slaughtered. They destroy our planet. All of the profits go to the billionaire farm owners who lobby to keep the laws in place. It is so horribly corrupt. Personall…

You're linking to a website with a clear agenda, hardly a reliable source. First off, who are the billionaire ranchers and secondly, why would it be wrong for them to exist (since they exist for every other major industry, too, including tech). - Farm land for vegetables takes up MASSIVE amounts of space, and it's not the same as leaving that land to nature and wildlife - Animals have to be killed in the production o…

Raising cattle also requires additional land use for growing feed.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#187

Post by NatoStrut »

kmlx wrote: post #110
RandomInteger4 wrote: post #75

Are these the burgers that bleed for no apparent appetizing reason? If I see my burger bleed, I'm sending it back, because I don't want food poisoning. Not sure how they came up with this nonsense that they think people want to see bloody under cooked ground meat.

wut? it’s not blood, “it's myoglobin, the protein that delivers oxygen to an animal's muscles. This protein turns red when meat is cut, or exposed to air. Heating the protein turns it a darker color. Rare meat isn't “bloody,” it is just cooked to a lower temperature” [0] you’re sending stuff back based on your lack of knowledge. [0] https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/what-i...

Burgers should not be served rare because of the risk of food poisoning in under-cooked minced beef. You can eat steak rare because you sear the outside, killing the bugs.

Calling it "blood" is wrong (but everybody knows what that means), but sending it back for more cooking isn't.

Some people think the risk is small enough that they're not bothered by it.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#188

Post by hkyeti »

rhinoceraptor wrote: post #147
everdev wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would grass fed beef generate a negative carbon footprint?

They eat grass, distress the soil and leave their fertilizer behind. The grass regrows, which captures carbon via photosynthesis. Obviously I have no idea what I'm talking about, so I don't know if the methane produced by cattle has a bigger impact. But it definitely seems better than both grain fed meat and monocrops, in terms of energy input and environmental/ecosystem impact. The major energy input in the system i…

Oxford and CSIRO scientists already proved grass fed cattle is worse for greenhouse gases than CAFO beef farming. Carbon sequestration no where near makes up for the increases emissions.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#189

Post by hkyeti »

honkycat wrote: post #121
mfatica wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do local farmers fall into the mix? I buy a cow every year from a local farm - they raise and slaughter the cow and deliver the whole thing butchered and packaged. I much prefer this to anything I could buy at the grocery store.

Personally, I don't have a problem with locally raised beef. Factory farms make up the majority of beef. Stats are here: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/its-time-to-end-factory-f_b_1...

Oxford and CSIRO scientists already proved grass fed cattle is worse for greenhouse gases than CAFO beef farming. Carbon sequestration no where near makes up for the increases emissions.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#190

Post by cdumler »

sgillen wrote: post #100
goda90 wrote: post #41

Here an interesting quote[0] from the founder of Impossible Burger that kind of touches on the meatless vs vegetarian/vegan discussion happening a lot in this thread: "[Before becoming a vegan] I loved putting milk in my coffee and cereal, but plant-based milks don’t work for me so far. No-one is trying very hard to deliver the full experience of what consumers value from milk. We don’t want to follow the course of s…

Ironically I find that I (vegetarian, not vegan) tend to enjoy meat replacements that don't try replicate meat. I find the ones that DO try to replicate meats taste are just not very good at it, and it ends up tasting pretty bad. The good stuff is still tasty and savory but it's doing its own thing. edit: Not to say the impossible burger can't be good (I've not been able to try one) Just a comment on existing product…

As a fellow vegetarian, I agree with not liking non-meat meat products that are too close. But, my transition was a long one. My family was very much carnosaur. I was told that I need to "expand my horizons," which meant eating new and different types of animals. (I not many that I haven't tried.) When I met my wife to be, who was vegan, that made me rethink my diet. She introduced me to many new cuisines, notably Indian and Thai, that feature dishes not based around meat.

At first, it was deciding what new vegetarian things to try, and what choices I was going to give up. I've come to realize that a lot of people identify with food. For some, it's a family thing to have a big burger. For others, whatever non-meat products they have had gave bad experiences. I can't tell you how many people I've met who say tofu is horrible. To be fair, most places or people have no clue properly prepare it; thus, the very idea of a non-meat substitute is killed.

I've tried the burger. It's impressively too close to the real thing for me to want to eat them. Yet, it is my hope that the impossible burger will be one of many avenues for people to make a transition to a more sustainable, ethical and healthier diet. In turn, I hope it ups the game for other companies to look at vegetarian options that are prepared well.

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