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Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW M3 [video]

topgear.com

11–20 of 62 posts

Re: Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW M3 [video]

#11
post #2

Does anyone trust topgear for actual reviews, especially when tesla is involved? The courts literally ruled that you shouldn't: > Mr Justice Tugendhat said that no Top Gear viewer would have reasonably compared the car's performance on the show's airfield track to its likely performance on a public road https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_controversies#Tesla_R...

Top Gear is under new ownership. Clarkson and Wilman sold the IP to the BBC and took their team with them to Amazon; post-2016 Top Gear is a completely new entity operating under old branding.

The new Top Gear has been nothing but fair about EVs and has given glowing reviews to several all-electric models.

Re: Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW M3 [video]

#12

I admittedly haven't watched the video yet (although I plan to and will update my comment), but as someone who really wants to love an EV, the technology just isn't there for me yet. The range is not nearly enough for me. Yes, 300 miles is not enough. Just this weekend I drove between LA and SF twice, and while I had to stop and get gas it took me 5 minutes instead of however long it would take me to charge the car e…

This is why I believe that plug-in hybrids will last much longer than people expect. I know most techno-geeks think that PHEVs (Plugin Hybrid Electric Vehicles) are "stop-gap" technologies.... but they solve the range problem AND solve the "batteries are heavy" problem very elegantly.

Lets be frank: Li-Ion batteries may have gotten dramatically lighter, but they're no where close to how light gasoline is. PHEVs allow gasoline engines to operate at their optimal power-generation band as a gasoline generator (optimizing your gas milage), while also using standard electric connections to charge on a daily basis.

So you don't need many Li-Ion batteries for PHEVs (lighter car, cheaper to make). You still get the flat torque band of EVs, and if you manage to charge your vehicle within 50-miles, you won't use any gasoline either.

In the long term, gas stations will grow less profitable as electricity becomes sufficient for 80+% of driving cases. But it seems more sustainable to downscale gas stations in the USA rather than to build out a supercharging network.

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Pure-electric high performance cars like Model S will be fun toys for those who can afford it. But PHEVs are the ones that seem to make financial sense for the majority of consumers. Be it the Prius Prime, Chevy Volt, or Honda Clarity.

Re: Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW M3 [video]

#13

I admittedly haven't watched the video yet (although I plan to and will update my comment), but as someone who really wants to love an EV, the technology just isn't there for me yet. The range is not nearly enough for me. Yes, 300 miles is not enough. Just this weekend I drove between LA and SF twice, and while I had to stop and get gas it took me 5 minutes instead of however long it would take me to charge the car e…

With the new Tesla Model S Long Range (400 miles of range on freeway), you can drive non stop between LA and San Francisco.

Re: Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW M3 [video]

#15
post #7

My last car was an E92 M3 MT (with Tech, Premium, Competition packages and a modded exhaust). It was the most fun vehicle I've ever driven. It had plenty of power, and introduced me to the side of cars other than straight line power. It also had plenty of luxury inside, the car was credibly comfortable. All in all I think it compared very favorably to my friends R8 with nearly as much performance and plenty more luxu…

What else was expensive to maintain, and why? Was this on a new M3?

Re: Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW M3 [video]

#16

I admittedly haven't watched the video yet (although I plan to and will update my comment), but as someone who really wants to love an EV, the technology just isn't there for me yet. The range is not nearly enough for me. Yes, 300 miles is not enough. Just this weekend I drove between LA and SF twice, and while I had to stop and get gas it took me 5 minutes instead of however long it would take me to charge the car e…

I agree with the basic sentiment that EVs have potential but aren't quite there yet.

One issue that I've seen raised a few times now is how honest the environmental credentials of these EVs really are. Sure, you aren't emitting pollution from your petrol/diesel engine as you drive. However, you have the emissions from whatever electricity source you use for charging instead, which obviously depends on how environmentally friendly or otherwise your power supply is. Crucially, you also have the effects of manufacturing these vehicles. Particularly when it comes to the batteries, those are still very significant. On top of that, batteries for EVs are heavy, and shifting all that extra weight around has a cost as well.

Just last week, there was a study being widely reported that suggested the true overall lifetime CO2 emissions given typical lifetime and usage levels for a car would make an electric vehicle worse than a diesel one of otherwise similar specification, much of this due to the hidden costs in mining key elements used in the battery.

Given that some of the materials involved are also relatively rare (or at least relatively difficult to supply viably in large quantities) I think the jury is still out on whether the modern generation of EVs will bring the big improvements that some of the environmentalists are hoping for.

Edit: To those anonymously downvoting, it would be more constructive and probably a lot more interesting to discuss actual facts and scientific evidence. For example, if you know of substantial, robust research on the environmental impacts of mining the materials needed for EV batteries on a scale where these vehicles become mass market rather than a niche product, please share it so the rest of us can learn something. Likewise, if you have substantial knowledge about the likely efficiency of improving EV technology, charging facilities and the sources behind them compared to other new or evolving models for powering vehicles over the next 10-20 years such as hybrid models or alternative fuels, please comment accordingly.

Re: Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW M3 [video]

#17

I admittedly haven't watched the video yet (although I plan to and will update my comment), but as someone who really wants to love an EV, the technology just isn't there for me yet. The range is not nearly enough for me. Yes, 300 miles is not enough. Just this weekend I drove between LA and SF twice, and while I had to stop and get gas it took me 5 minutes instead of however long it would take me to charge the car e…

With the new Tesla Model S Long Range (400 miles of range on freeway), you can drive non stop between LA and San Francisco.

Isn't the real problem with using EVs for long distance travel the charging time, though? My petrol engine car has finite range as well, but if I'm running low, I can easily find somewhere to fill up and it takes less than five minutes. If you have an EV, how easy is it to find a charging station, and how long does it take to recharge? Some of these practical issues still seem to be a long way from being solved, and until they are, pure EVs seem to have more potential for reducing emissions locally in congested urban areas than as long distance transportation.

Re: Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW M3 [video]

#18

I admittedly haven't watched the video yet (although I plan to and will update my comment), but as someone who really wants to love an EV, the technology just isn't there for me yet. The range is not nearly enough for me. Yes, 300 miles is not enough. Just this weekend I drove between LA and SF twice, and while I had to stop and get gas it took me 5 minutes instead of however long it would take me to charge the car e…

This is why I believe that plug-in hybrids will last much longer than people expect. I know most techno-geeks think that PHEVs (Plugin Hybrid Electric Vehicles) are "stop-gap" technologies.... but they solve the range problem AND solve the "batteries are heavy" problem very elegantly. Lets be frank: Li-Ion batteries may have gotten dramatically lighter, but they're no where close to how light gasoline is. PHEVs allow…

This seems unlikely given that the Volt has been canceled and much of the momentum is moving towards electric only platforms, even from the major manufacturers.

Re: Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW M3 [video]

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the new Tesla Model S Long Range (400 miles of range on freeway), you can drive non stop between LA and San Francisco.

Isn't the real problem with using EVs for long distance travel the charging time, though? My petrol engine car has finite range as well, but if I'm running low, I can easily find somewhere to fill up and it takes less than five minutes. If you have an EV, how easy is it to find a charging station, and how long does it take to recharge? Some of these practical issues still seem to be a long way from being solved, and…

With EVs that you can charge at home, that means that for your normal driving that you probably do 80 to 90 % of the time, you NEVER need to stop to "fill up" because you charge every night at home. The tradeoff is that when you do decide to drive more than 250 to 350 miles in one trip, you'll need to take at least one break where you charge.

If you optimize only for the long journeys, you miss out on the benefits from normal driving which you probably do a lot more often.

Re: Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW M3 [video]

#20

In this test performed by the show host (not a professional driver) the Tesla Model 3 won for 1/4 mile, 0-100-0, and the hot lap. The BMW M3 was deemed “more fun to drift”. Looks good for the Tesla!

I'm not sure it really won the spirit of the 0-100-0. Yes it completed the task faster, but it also required more distance, implying that it takes significantly longer to brake. A quick search suggests this is a known Model 3 weakness.

Edit: It would have been more honest to have one test of acceleration and another of only braking. Also, the Tesla won the hot-lap but had significant body roll that made it difficult to stay on the track... This video is really only appealing to people who already like the Tesla.

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