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Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

nytimes.com

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Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#31

Post by szemet »

modzu wrote: post #10
BurningCycles wrote: post #3

Well, it's kids playing make-believe, and in a physically active way, I'm all for it.

“If someone says we are playing, it strips away everything we made, it strips away the reality,” said Ms. Aarniomaki. it looks like playing to me as well, and not sure why the community would see that as a problem. even professional sports players know they are playing a game. an interesting and unusual perspective for sure.

There are analogies for keeping similar illusion alive, like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_wrestling

"The matches have predetermined outcomes[11] to heighten entertainment value[12] and all combative maneuvers are executed with the full cooperation of those involved...These facts were once kept highly secret but are now a widely accepted open secret. To promote and sustain the willing suspension of disbelief by maintaining an aura of verisimilitude, the performing company avoids discussing the true nature of the performance in official media"

And these are adults.

These girls may continue their hobbies in adulthood too (like most people keep playing the games they like at older age...)

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#32

Post by p1esk »

pavlov wrote: post #14
blarg1 wrote: post #4

Sometimes I wonder if I'm just getting old and no longer get things, or if the world is just getting crazier.

I guess that's how people our age felt about rock'n'roll in 1959... (Approaching forty here.) Too often my knee-jerk reaction to unexpected things is "There's no possible cultural value in this." But it usually pays off to put in a bit of effort to try to understand what the practitioners are getting out of it.

Rock’n’roll was new and cool in 1959.

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#33

Post by distances »

FakeComments wrote: post #26
distances wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder if something was lost in translation, if that read " it strips away the illusion" then the component of pretending in this type of play makes sense. Yes something was lost. In Finnish there are different words for children's make-believe plays ("leikkiä") and sports/adult games ("pelata"). Your example of comic-con is spot on, I think.

Given your comment about the two words in Finnish, I think the comment about comic cons has it backwards: > “If someone says we are playing, it strips away everything we made, it strips away the reality,” said Ms. Aarniomaki. She’s objecting to being compared to comics instead of soccer, hence “the reality” being stripped — you’re accusing what they view as akin to gymnastics as being mere fantasy.

I'm not sure if I got you right -- a comic convention wouldn't be called with the make-believe word. That would be intentionally belittling if adults (or teenagers, for that matter) are attending. It's used only for small children's plays.

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#34

Post by pavlov »

p1esk wrote: post #32
pavlov wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that's how people our age felt about rock'n'roll in 1959... (Approaching forty here.) Too often my knee-jerk reaction to unexpected things is "There's no possible cultural value in this." But it usually pays off to put in a bit of effort to try to understand what the practitioners are getting out of it.

Rock’n’roll was new and cool in 1959.

Exactly. 40-year-old people mostly didn't get new and cool.

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#35

Post by close04 »

michaelt wrote: post #29
modzu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“If someone says we are playing, it strips away everything we made, it strips away the reality,” said Ms. Aarniomaki. it looks like playing to me as well, and not sure why the community would see that as a problem. even professional sports players know they are playing a game. an interesting and unusual perspective for sure.

not sure why the community would see that as a problem If someone is learning martial arts, you might see that as a demanding sport, for tough serious athletes, demanding discipline, hard work and self-control. Or you might see it as playing at being Bruce Lee. Hiiii-Ya! Needless to say, the former perspective implies more respect for the people doing it! But there's not a bright line between 'serious' activities and…

It depends on the level of skill required to master the sport and the level at which you're performing. Some sports take a lot more skill than others and mastering those demands more respect. And it can be that you're just playing Bruce Lee by throwing your arms and legs all over the place.

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#36

Post by wemdyjreichert »

michaelt wrote: post #29
modzu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“If someone says we are playing, it strips away everything we made, it strips away the reality,” said Ms. Aarniomaki. it looks like playing to me as well, and not sure why the community would see that as a problem. even professional sports players know they are playing a game. an interesting and unusual perspective for sure.

not sure why the community would see that as a problem If someone is learning martial arts, you might see that as a demanding sport, for tough serious athletes, demanding discipline, hard work and self-control. Or you might see it as playing at being Bruce Lee. Hiiii-Ya! Needless to say, the former perspective implies more respect for the people doing it! But there's not a bright line between 'serious' activities and…

I'd say there's a bit of a difference between martial arts and a toy pony. I know martial artists who can break a dozen cinder bricks with an elbow; that's a serious pursuit. I'd say there is a serious difference between that and riding a toy stick.

This extends to many other sports and activities: you can practice at a serious level or an amateur one. The difference here is that I see no serious level for this. Same thing with comics, which I saw some one else mention earlier.

I guess if the kids are having fun, fine. This does seem incredibly weird, but I guess it's between them and their parents. However, I don't understand this demand to be taken seriously. It's a hobby; they do it for fun, and that's fine.

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#37

Post by Shivetya »

blarg1 wrote: post #4

Sometimes I wonder if I'm just getting old and no longer get things, or if the world is just getting crazier.

Our world is getting bigger which means we are exposed to more and more cultures each day. Used to be (states) we had National Geographic magazine for other cultures and that moved onto TV shows.

Then the internet came. Now we can find it real time. Imagine it and it may exist, find things you never imagined and they do exist.

All comes down to all us being better for it all. Think of how much exposure that all the conflicts bring about as we learn about people we would have only had a by line about. Now we get video of who they are, how they live, what they like to do.

Many talk about the good old days, heck we are living them

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#38

Post by close04 »

daliusd wrote: post #24
ktpsns wrote: post #16

It makes me sad that this is a "celebration of girlhood" but boys are not even mentioned in this article. Why can't boys also practice hobbyhorse training?

It seems boys can, they simply don't. It seems for some reason it became girly thing in Finland (like fake eye lashes, maybe) and boys avoid it. Citation from another article: """ There doesn’t seem to be that many boys riding hobbyhorses? Alisa: I think it’s quite sad, actually. It feels like boys aren’t allowed to do this thing that is considered to be a girly thing. At the same time, I think it also means we have…

> It seems boys can, they simply don't

Society and entourage treats a boy doing this far worse than it would a girl doing it. I can only imagine the kind of bullying I would have opened myself up to by doing this in my childhood (say at 10+ years old). I remember some of my friends being laughed at by their own parents for playing "girlish" games. Bullies were far less forgiving.

It's a good case study to understand why many women avoid certain fields not because they're not up to it but because society "guides" them another way.

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#40

Post by pjc50 »

So as an occasional (male) rider of real horses, there's something I've always wondered about: how did the recreation become so gendered?

Up until about the middle of the 20th century there was still utilitarian and military horse riding. Men would learn to ride. Now it seems to be culturally associated almost entirely with young upper-middle-class girls or middle-aged women. Is this the result of toy marketing (My Little Pony from the 80s onwards), or high society, or something else?

What interests me about this Finnish subculture is that it's perfectly cloned the "horse culture", just without any actual horses. It's very close to a cargo cult. Possibly Finland is too cold to have a regular horse culture?

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