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Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

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Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#91

Post by ncmncm »

headsoup wrote: post #87
ncmncm wrote: post #73

The main attraction of Apple products is the certainty that, no matter what you do, they cannot be made to do what you would like. The consequence is that you feel no urge to spend time tinkering to get there, and instead adapt yourself to what it actually does. This reclaims all the time and attention that you would have spent on tinkering. Since what Apple products do has proven adequate for a large number of peopl…

I disagree entirely with that. I think Apple sold people the idea that what they provide is really cool and 'just works' and that you want to be in their 'ecosystem.' It worked, people bought the allure and then just stopped looking at other solutions because Apple said they don't need to. I think your post highlights exactly that: a buy-in to the brand so strong as to not even try and look elsewhere when issues aris…

So, in the end, disagree, or agree? The head spins.

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#92

Post by bayindirh »

sjwright wrote: post #85
bayindirh wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a long time (10+ years) Linux and macOS user, I accept most of the things you say, and macOS is an extremely time efficient platform to do work. However, the lack of unifying vision is not an Achilles heel of the open source community. It's the essence of it. I like how any two installations of two distributions are never the same, and this broad ecosystem just works, tumbles, fights and creates new stuff. I've cr…

I don't disagree with anything you've said, and I don't think that my post—if read in full—disagrees with it either. The lack of unifying vision in open source can be both an Achilles heel and its most valuable asset. The lack of a community-led ethos in macOS can be be both its Achilles heel and its most valuable asset.

Honestly, I missed your last footnote only. Possibly I got distracted by something. My fault.

When read in full, we're on the same page. OTOH, I also didn't disagree with you on anything it seems. So, the two comments can be nicely summed up as a look to same lawn from a opposing vantage points, since I use Linux more often than macOS (albeit I have a MacBook Pro that I use pretty regularly).

If my tone sounds a bit harsh, sorry for that. English is not my mother tongue. Also, if you can tell me where it's rude(ish), I can work on it.

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#93

Post by laumars »

patrec wrote: post #84
ncmncm wrote: post #73

The main attraction of Apple products is the certainty that, no matter what you do, they cannot be made to do what you would like. The consequence is that you feel no urge to spend time tinkering to get there, and instead adapt yourself to what it actually does. This reclaims all the time and attention that you would have spent on tinkering. Since what Apple products do has proven adequate for a large number of peopl…

> So, the appeal of Mac emulation is very limited, because it starts out with tinkering. There are countless of utilities for tinkering with you mac setup and the best and most tinker-y terminal for any platform is a mac-only app (iterm2). It's just that macOS starts out with a far high usability level without tinkering and comes with lots of basic stuff working that no amount of tinkering will ever give you with lin…

> There are countless of utilities for tinkering with you mac setup and the best and most tinker-y terminal for any platform is a mac-only app (iterm2). It's just that macOS starts out with a far high usability level without tinkering and comes with lots of basic stuff working that no amount of tinkering will ever give you with linux

I was with you right up until you made the cheap shot at Linux. That was as unnecessary as it was untrue.

> (like you can actually find files on your computer, good luck doing that with linux)

Linux is no harder to find files on than it is on OS X. They have the same CLI tools, they both has desktop environments that support file indexing and rapid searching (eg Spotlight). And on Linux that all gets installed by default with the desktop environment - just as it does on OS X too. So they really aren't all that different.

> lots of good software is mac only

I agree. But there is also lots of good software on Linux too. In all my years of running Linux and OS X the only Mac-only application I've missed on other platforms is Logic. But even there, we're talking 15 years ago and Linux has come a long, long way since in terms of the quality of DAWs available on it.

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#94

Post by erikschoster »

setpatchaddress wrote: post #52
microcolonel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> — System-wide UI consistency, especially in the fine details > — Singular UI/UX vision eliminates points of confusion and everything-is-a-compromise choices for third party developers I mean, first-party GNOME applications are as consistent as first-party Apple macOS applications; and third-party macOS applications are as highly customized as third-party applications one might run on GNOME. Not sure what you base y…

CoreAudio round trip latency can be under 5ms.

It's easy to get latency this low with ALSA+JACK.

Edit: and it's possible to go much lower, for example look at the linux-based Bela: https://bela.io/about#why-latency-matters

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#95

Post by Sammi »

ncmncm wrote: post #73

The main attraction of Apple products is the certainty that, no matter what you do, they cannot be made to do what you would like. The consequence is that you feel no urge to spend time tinkering to get there, and instead adapt yourself to what it actually does. This reclaims all the time and attention that you would have spent on tinkering. Since what Apple products do has proven adequate for a large number of peopl…

This Apple "Upgrade" is an almost perfect example of real world Doublethink as George Orwells defined it in the novel 1984.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#96

Post by yoz-y »

vaylian wrote: post #80
ncmncm wrote: post #73

The main attraction of Apple products is the certainty that, no matter what you do, they cannot be made to do what you would like. The consequence is that you feel no urge to spend time tinkering to get there, and instead adapt yourself to what it actually does. This reclaims all the time and attention that you would have spent on tinkering. Since what Apple products do has proven adequate for a large number of peopl…

Thanks for putting into words what I had suspected for so long. Apple is really good at identifying what the vast majority of people (aka normal users) want to do with their computer and then they optimize these workflows. But if you want to do something more exotic you are usually out of luck. Talking to Apple enthusiasts is really tough. It's almost as you are speaking a different language. Of course, in the end of…

Many Mac users come from Linux and Windows (of course there are migrations in other directions too), most developers on MacOS also use Linux daily. So I'd wager most of them understand what you mean, but disagree.

Personally I like to tinker and personalise only a subset of tools I use to get things done (iTerm, tmux, vim...) and have good defaults on the rest.

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#97

Post by michaelgrafl »

simonh wrote: post #90
ncmncm wrote: post #73

The main attraction of Apple products is the certainty that, no matter what you do, they cannot be made to do what you would like. The consequence is that you feel no urge to spend time tinkering to get there, and instead adapt yourself to what it actually does. This reclaims all the time and attention that you would have spent on tinkering. Since what Apple products do has proven adequate for a large number of peopl…

I don't really get this, MacOS is super tinker-y. You can script multi-app work flows with Automator, set up folder actions to magically transmute files (I have one that insta-shrinks the images in PDFs for me and puts them in an output directory), cast magic spells on selected data using custom services, use the full range of Unix commands for text processing. You have Perl and Python right there. The things that ar…

I think you have proven your parent's point by drawing the line between useful and time wasting tinkering.

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#99

Post by xondono »

patrec wrote: post #84
ncmncm wrote: post #73

The main attraction of Apple products is the certainty that, no matter what you do, they cannot be made to do what you would like. The consequence is that you feel no urge to spend time tinkering to get there, and instead adapt yourself to what it actually does. This reclaims all the time and attention that you would have spent on tinkering. Since what Apple products do has proven adequate for a large number of peopl…

> So, the appeal of Mac emulation is very limited, because it starts out with tinkering. There are countless of utilities for tinkering with you mac setup and the best and most tinker-y terminal for any platform is a mac-only app (iterm2). It's just that macOS starts out with a far high usability level without tinkering and comes with lots of basic stuff working that no amount of tinkering will ever give you with lin…

I would pay a decent amount just to get Omnifocus working on windows and linux machines.

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#100

Post by jsjsjsjsjsjs »

lostgame wrote: post #15

I wish I had the time to contribute to this. Getting Logic running on linux would let me ditch the Apple hardware. It's usefulness is entirely limited to the implementation of the core library frameworks such as Core Image, Audio, MIDI, Animation, Data, etc...which will be very, very difficult, I think, while maintaining FOSS status.

Virtualize https://passthroughpo.st/hackintosh-kvm-guide-high-sierra-us...
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