The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource • Hacker News Board

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#81

Post by jhbadger » Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 2:41 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #63

dunnevens wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those voices are far from unheard. If anything, they've been the dominant political voices for the past 40 years. Sure, California and NYC's cultural output is the loudest voice in the country. But, politically speaking, they're largely ignored. Obviously ignored by Republicans, but the timid national Democratic leadership will also ignore them in their relentless centrism. The political system makes it pretty easy t…

Are Democrats centrist? One of the things I learn the deeper I dig into how European countries are structured is that they’re more right leaning than American liberals assume. Let’s take Spain. If we adopted Spain’s tax structure, income taxes would go down by about a trillion dollars, while consumption taxes (paid for primarily by middle class and poor people), would go up two trillion dollars. Spain’s abortion laws…

Spain isn't really the model Americans think about in terms of Europe though. That the country that was literally a Fascist dictatorship until the mid 1970s has some right wing views isn't exactly a surprise. It's Scandinavia that's the model the US left wants to copy.

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#82

Post by tropo » Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 3:03 AM UTC

buerkle wrote: post #22

bdcravens wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sums up well Trump's ascension: there are a lot of people who have real needs and real opinions, and whose votes count as much as someone's in California or New York. An environment where we insist on leaving those voices unheard is what enables someone to have extreme influence.

In many cases California and New York voters count much less than in smaller, more rural states. The senators from Wyoming represent about 300,000 people each. The senators in California represent nearly 19,000,000 each. And the The Permanent Apportionment Act of 1929 capped the number in the House of Representatives. In this case, each California House member represents three times as many people as the House member…

Wyoming, and any state rounded up to 1 representative, is special. Aside from that the effect is minor.

There is an effect going the other direction that benefits California, and in fact is why there is a fight going on at the Supreme Court. Voters in those rural states are underrepresented due to non-citizens being counted to apportion the representatives. California has something like a couple dozen extra representatives from that.

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#83

Post by starik36 » Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 3:15 AM UTC

op00to wrote: post #48

pard68 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never been to PayLess, is it any good, or rather was it? Also, should mention TJMaxx has decent stuff. Never bought shoes there but I get pants, shirts, and random stuff for the house. My wife gets plenty of clothes there though.

Every time I bought PayLess shoes, they were destroyed in weeks. I haven't been in 10 years, but fuck that place.

My were usually gone by 6 months to a year, which isn't great. But then they cost $20. I'd usually buy 2 pairs.

I think they were worth their cost.

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#84

Post by rayiner » Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 3:15 AM UTC

jhbadger wrote: post #81

rayiner wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Democrats centrist? One of the things I learn the deeper I dig into how European countries are structured is that they’re more right leaning than American liberals assume. Let’s take Spain. If we adopted Spain’s tax structure, income taxes would go down by about a trillion dollars, while consumption taxes (paid for primarily by middle class and poor people), would go up two trillion dollars. Spain’s abortion laws…

Spain isn't really the model Americans think about in terms of Europe though. That the country that was literally a Fascist dictatorship until the mid 1970s has some right wing views isn't exactly a surprise. It's Scandinavia that's the model the US left wants to copy.

Sweden has corporate taxes slightly lower than under Trump’s tax law. It collects 6% of revenue from corporate taxes, versus 9% in the US. It collects much less of it’s revenue from progressive income taxes than the US does, and much more from regressive consumption and payroll taxes. Sweden’s capital gains rate is only moderately higher than the US’s (flat 30% versus 23.8% in the top brackets). There are no inheritance taxes. In short, if the US adopted Sweden’s tax code, taxes on lower income and middle class people would go up much more than on rich people. (In fact, the tax burden in Sweden is almost perfectly flat.) Sweden has school choice including subsidization of religious schools. Elective abortion is legal only up to 18 weeks. Deregulation and privatization are extensive. For example, Stockholm’s metro system is operated under contract by for-profit corporations. Sweden has no ban on fully automatic weapons or high capacity magazines.

These are really fundamental differences, particularly in the area of taxes (and that’s true not just for Sweden and Spain, but most European countries). In Europe, there is an expansive welfare state with lots of benefits for the middle class, but the middle class are also the ones that pay for it, through high payroll and sales taxes. In the US, replacing sales taxes with a 20% VAT (the OECD average) would raise an extra $700 billion according to CBO estimates. Enough to pay for socialized health care and education. But nobody on the left is proposing that. Every proposal focuses on raising taxes on corporations and the rich to pay for middle class benefits.

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#85

Post by tropo » Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 3:15 AM UTC

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #72

Spooky23 wrote: post #33

The missing factor is that when shoe production was completely sourced to a few companies in China (70% of US market), nearly all shoes turned to shit. So Payless wasn’t really differentiated itself from any other value brand. The end of Payless is just another private equity story, and poor kids will just get a smaller variety of shitty shoes from WalMart, TJMaxx, or Dollar General. The majority of us get screwed in…

It's a shame how true this is. My wife went through three pairs of Nike shoes -- all of them were over $100 and they caused bruises and wounds on her feet. I have a pair of Nikes as well that is one of their higher end shoes, and even they are extremely uncomfortable to wear for walking. As an aside, Payless Shoes also has bittersweet memories for me. When I was young, I didn't fully comprehend what shopping there me…

Now you can be judged for wearing Nike, especially if you step out of that city or travel back to visit the American midwest. New Balance is a far better choice.

https://www.newbalance.com/made-in-us-and-uk/

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#86

Post by icelancer » Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 3:23 AM UTC

icelancer wrote: post #30

richardhod wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well to be fair, they are in long-term stakes, wrong since these companies do end up impoverishing them. It's the problem that nobody without a backup and savings can think strategically, which is the paradox and issue with a predatory capitalist system .

Pointing out that people are making mistakes is not a way to win them over. The facts are not really relevant when trying to win someone over. > predatory capitalist system They don't like hearing this, either. The concept of hard work getting them ahead is one of the few things blue collar workers hold on to. (It is also not necessarily true as you state.)

Not sure how this got three downvotes without explanation, so if anyone would be kind enough to do so, that'd be much appreciated. Hacker News is supposed to be about discussion, not blind voting.

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#87

Post by icelancer » Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 3:25 AM UTC

bsder wrote: post #64

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they are in long-term stakes, wrong since these companies do end up impoverishing them. Are they though? Walmart has a negative impact on local small businesses but is it made up for by making goods available at prices they would otherwise not be leading to increased purchasing power? As someone who grew up somewhere that local authorities were able to exert control over who did and didn't do business I am all for t…

> Walmart has a negative impact on local small businesses but is it made up for by making goods available at prices they would otherwise not be leading to increased purchasing power? I'm not going to let you assert this without challenge. First, durable goods are probably more expensive. For example, old lawnmowers lasted forever --WalMart ones die in a couple seasons. Second, if a big box store wipes out local jobs…

> For example, old lawnmowers lasted forever

These types of goods are still around today and priced the same when adjusting for inflation. Commercial and industrial buyers are their main market.

The best washing machines and vacuum cleaners aren't made by your brands you find in basic stores, they're at the specialty shops or catalogs. The Internet enables you to find out what they are and where to get them. They're just REALLY expensive compared to the cheap, Chinese-made alternatives today. But they're still around and the same real price as before. It's just that people race to the bottom and prioritize price first.

> is WalMart actually cheaper

This is pretty indisputable. I've done a lot of shopping there when I was poor and the differences are enormous, especially on boxed and cheap food staples.

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#88

Post by jstarfish » Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 3:26 AM UTC

joegahona wrote: post #77

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I play basketball nearly every day -- still at 30. I've gone through a lot of basketball and running shoes. I've never bought any no-name random shoes, but Nikes -- for me at least -- are BY FAR the lowest quality shoes I've worn. They literally fall to pieces within months every time I buy a pair. I can't even complain, because at this point I should know better. I've found a pair of Asics that have decent traction…

Trail-running shoes are, imo, the best shoes for hiking. I do a ton of hiking and see people all the time in those thick, clunky hiking boots they sell for $200 at REI. Totally unnecessary.

Depends on what you're hiking.

Boots protect against minor injuries and frostbite to shins, calves, toes, soles and ankles and reinforce the same if you do tear something and end up having to limp for miles (splint or not).

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#89

Post by kasey_junk » Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 3:29 AM UTC

pascalxus wrote: post #70

kasey_junk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you having them repaired? The shoe repair shops in my neighborhood are aging out & im worried it will stop being an option.

no, i don't repair them because at 10$ it's cheaper to buy a new pair than have it repaired.

What sort of shoes do you get for $10 and last ten years?

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#90

Post by flukus » Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 3:33 AM UTC

starik36 wrote: post #83

op00to wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I bought PayLess shoes, they were destroyed in weeks. I haven't been in 10 years, but fuck that place.

My were usually gone by 6 months to a year, which isn't great. But then they cost $20. I'd usually buy 2 pairs. I think they were worth their cost.

6 months to a year is what I generally get out of "high quality" name brands like asics and nike, the only difference seems to be which part of the shoe goes first, with budget brands it's the sole, more expensive ones it tends to get holes around the top of the toe area.