Live data from Hacker News

Coffee Cups Are Next

bloomberg.com

121–130 of 447 posts

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pretty much only make grocery trips on foot. At least for this pedestrian, both reusable canvas bags and disposable paper bags work just fine for bringing groceries home. I don’t think I’ve met anyone who decided to always drive to the market instead of walking because of the plastic bag ban. If I need to lug home more than I can carry in two hands, dragging a wagon works pretty well. I re-use paper grocery bags as…

I'm glad your life works for you. Truly. But I'm extremely frustrated with the fact that no one seems to genuinely be interested in understanding anything I say on such topics. Even the best people here often come across as only asking so as to more effectively rebut my points, not to have their mind broadened or their understanding of the issues deepened. For someone like me, that's basically life threatening. And t…

I'm genuinely interested in understanding what you have to say. It's difficult to understand though, since the only difference in our situations seems to be that you want to use plastic bags and I don't. When people are rebutting your arguments, I don't get the feeling that they don't want to understand what you are saying. Rather, I feel that they don't want to agree with what you are saying.

It is very possible that we are all missing something integral to your overall argument, but since all of your individual points have been rebutted, it seems that this thing has been unspoken.

It occurs to me that perhaps it isn't your argument that is falling on deaf ears. It's your feeling. Often times, when making an argument, it is hard to separate the two. If only I felt like you, then I would understand immediately. It's a thing that is hard, if not impossible, to put into words and so try as you might, it seems like nobody is able to understand. Indeed it seems like nobody wants to understand.

I suppose if I try to use my imagination, I can imagine a scenario where I would feel the way you seem to feel. Of course, this is not likely to be the same feeling that you actually have. I hope you will forgive me in that I am probably unable to achieve that. In trying, though, I hope it will provide you the sense that I'm not against you and that even if I disagree with you, I care about your feelings.

There have been many times when I have worked hard to get a system that works for me. Sometimes it's been just at the edge of my ability to achieve that system. I'm not good at everything in the world, unfortunately. In fact, I'm extremely bad at some things and even if I try as hard as I can, I can't maintain a level that would be normal for another person. You could say I am disabled in that sense... but it's not a disability that you can see. Nor is it a disability that you can write down on an application for aide. Honestly, I'm just bad at it. Other people can't understand why and so rarely, if ever, make any allowances for me.

In that environment, I get my system going that allows me to just barely pass the level that is tolerated in society and I have pushed myself to the absolute limit to achieve that system. But then... society changes and they ask me to change my system. I want to break down in shame and cry out, "I *can't do it!", but I know that nobody will understand because it is a small thing for them. I don't know what to do because it is a burden I feel that I can't bear and yet nobody will help me.

If you are feeling that kind of thing, then perhaps I can understand. All I can do is to pass on my support. Probably you'll be surprised that a lot of people feel this way about certain things, but owing to the aforementioned shame, they are reluctant to talk about it (or often even admit it to themselves).

Even if I got this totally wrong, I hope it will make you feel better that somebody tried to understand.

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Needs to be asynchronous. You pay for the cup when you buy a drink and you can drop it off at any disposal machine and get your money for the cup back. The problem to solve is that no one wants to carry a cup around for longer than necessary. Buy, drink, dispose. The government could help a lot by creating a standard cup and mandating all companies have to use them.

> The problem to solve is that no one wants to carry a cup around for longer than necessary. Buy, drink, dispose. This is a cultural problem. Women carry around handbags that are jammed to the brim with junk. Men don't generally carry handbags at all. There is no place to put a cup. In Japan there are virtually no trashcans and people are culturally taught not to litter, so everybody has to carry their trash home wit…

Yes it is a cultural problem and as we all know they are the hardest to overcome. If we want to make headway we need to start somewhere else and work on culture in the background. In Germany the pfand system has been working well for years. In Berlin you leave your bottle on the side walk and someone who needs the money can collect it to return it. It's a small act of charity that people regularly engage in. I believe it's the same in NYC from what I saw when visiting?

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#123
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There were a few decades where paper straws were the standard. That still doesn’t answer the question I raised in my post though. Where the standard paper straws wax paper?

The modern ones seem to be very lightly coated if at all. I do think that the reaction that they are impossible to drink from is more than a little silly, though. Maybe if you leave the straw in the drink for many hours it will collapse on you? I haven’t tried that.

> I do think that the reaction that they are impossible to drink from is more than a little silly, though. Maybe if you leave the straw in the drink for many hours it will collapse on you? I haven’t tried that.

I've had some paper straws that were okay. But I've had many that were soggy within 15 or 20 minutes? Particularly straws in milkshakes. But I suspect doesn't help that I'm in Florida – the high humidity means paper straws probably have a higher moisture content than other places, just by virtue of being in this environment. So it takes less absorption from the drink to make them loose structural integrity and start to collapse.

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#124
post #91

First they came for plastic bags. Then they came for straws. Coffee cups are next. Straws are a hot button topic in disabled circles.

I went to a cocktail bar that used dry pasta. Some kind of very long macaroni. Genius. It works perfectly and even holds up longer than a paper straw. And not only it is biodegradable, it is also edible.

Dry pasta likely cannot be made to hold up to a hot beverage though, can it?

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#125

A former workplace of mine mandated that no-one was allowed to use re-usable coffee mugs at all. This was done because of the mass of dirty, moldy cups that seemed to fill every kitchenette in a multi-floor building. The business was a media organization and it seemed to me like reporters were the worst culprits. The company provided styrofoam cups which were consumed at a enormous rate, and this was deemed to be a b…

This just hurts to read...

It is almost as bad as the somewhat inexplicable growth in bottled water in places where tap water is perfectly acceptable. In fact many of the branded bottles of water are not spring water but bottled tap water.

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad your life works for you. Truly. But I'm extremely frustrated with the fact that no one seems to genuinely be interested in understanding anything I say on such topics. Even the best people here often come across as only asking so as to more effectively rebut my points, not to have their mind broadened or their understanding of the issues deepened. For someone like me, that's basically life threatening. And t…

I'm genuinely interested in understanding what you have to say. It's difficult to understand though, since the only difference in our situations seems to be that you want to use plastic bags and I don't. When people are rebutting your arguments, I don't get the feeling that they don't want to understand what you are saying. Rather, I feel that they don't want to agree with what you are saying. It is very possible tha…

I'm genuinely interested in understanding what you have to say. It's difficult to understand though, since the only difference in our situations seems to be that you want to use plastic bags and I don't.

I have a diagnosis of atypical cystic fibrosis. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume you do not. Germ control is a really, really big thing in my life.

It is very possible that we are all missing something integral to your overall argument

If you will read my comments more closely, you might realize that I'm usually not making an argument. It's other people who turn it into an argument.

My first comment was merely an observation, not an argument. The fact that most people here are framing it as an argument to be won is precisely the problem.

It is possible to talk to someone with no goal of proving a particular point. It's called conversation. When done right, it can add information to the system that improves decision making.

But that can't happen as long as the entire fucking world sees a different experience and different point of view as a threat to their precious status quo that must be shot down before it has any hope of taking root.

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Needs to be asynchronous. You pay for the cup when you buy a drink and you can drop it off at any disposal machine and get your money for the cup back. The problem to solve is that no one wants to carry a cup around for longer than necessary. Buy, drink, dispose. The government could help a lot by creating a standard cup and mandating all companies have to use them.

> The problem to solve is that no one wants to carry a cup around for longer than necessary. Buy, drink, dispose. This is a cultural problem. Women carry around handbags that are jammed to the brim with junk. Men don't generally carry handbags at all. There is no place to put a cup. In Japan there are virtually no trashcans and people are culturally taught not to litter, so everybody has to carry their trash home wit…

Yet Japan is possibly the worst in the world when it comes to plastic waste. They often divide every 2 items from the convenience store into separate bags. Hell, it’s the land of individually plastic wrapped bite sized cookies served in an oversized plastic tray inside a bag with box outside of it.

As an even worse real life example, if you buy a slice of cake and tell them you’ll be eating it in 5 minutes, they get out a laminated box for a slice that can be eaten in 2 bites, insert a plastic ice pack, wrap the box in a tight layer of plastic, tape it, then put that inside a plastic bag large and sturdy enough to carry 2 toddlers. Just for a slice of cake I’ll eat almost immediately. Explain to them you don’t need it, and they can’t comprehend that you’d eat 5 minute warmed cake and do it anyways.

America at least has reusable water bottles and fountains for them in many places. I’ve yet to see such a thing in Japan. People would probably not want to use it because they’d fear it’s unsanitary. Except for some EU countries, America is way ahead of the curve here.

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with paper (or biodegradable plastic) straws, besides costing an extra penny or whatever?

The problem is paper straws already suck on their own and disintegrate quickly in a regular cup. It's worse when you use a PLA (biodegradable/compostable) plastic cup with a paper straw. This is because PLA is usually much stiffer than PET or PS lids so you end up with the lid pinching off the straw in its death grip. I asked a disabled person with cerebral palsy about what he thought of paper straws. His answer: "I…

Is there a market for reusable washable straws (perhaps metal?) for people with disability who require straws for everyday use? I know they already exist in some form. I've bought a rubber one for my toddler.

The answer doesn't need to be that everyone uses plastic straws just to cater for a niche market.

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I'm aware, the most the EU has done is look closely at doing it (most recently in 2018). One could argue that Lightning ports are better (particularly when compared to micro usb), and Apple seems to be slowly switching to usb-c. A standard charger would a. prohibit fast charging technologies or b. "pick the winner" with respect to such technologies. It would almost certainly slow or halt the use of newer fa…

One slightly worse but standard charger is a better situation than loads of incompatible chargers especially when you consider environmental impact. My main concern would be avoiding blocking progress where a new standard is built which is better but we can't move over to it because of regulation.

That's only true of you prioritize minimization of e-waste over personal convenience, which most (including me) do not. The regulation delay is exactly the problem: had politicians standardized micro-usb, we would still be on it rather than usb-c.

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I'm aware, the most the EU has done is look closely at doing it (most recently in 2018). One could argue that Lightning ports are better (particularly when compared to micro usb), and Apple seems to be slowly switching to usb-c. A standard charger would a. prohibit fast charging technologies or b. "pick the winner" with respect to such technologies. It would almost certainly slow or halt the use of newer fa…

> what a bad idea the phone charger thing was The correct approach there would have been telling the industry to get their shit together and agree on one standard (and then mandate that, not "that or an adapter" like what they let Apple get away with), under the threat that otherwise they'll make a standard for them.

I would argue that the industry do this already. On the part of Apple, lightning was undoubtedly better than micro-usb, and switching immediately to usb-c would arguably create more e-waste. Also, Apple is probably more sustainable than many other companies.
Post reply on HN