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Coffee Cups Are Next

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Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#41

Post by lozaning »

mattigames wrote: post #26
jacobolus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with paper (or biodegradable plastic) straws, besides costing an extra penny or whatever?

Why is paper the first choice? The obvious choice I think is something that doesn't need to go to the garbage immediately but something re-usable such as metal straws or wood straws.

Our company cafeteria has metal straws for sale for 50 cents, and a thing to wash them out with.

Works pretty well other than getting the ocasional sideways question about what the metal straw I keep in my bag is for.

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#42

Post by Camillo »

I honestly don't see why this is a problem. I use my straw, or my coffee cup, or whatever, and I throw it in a trash can. It's not going to hurt any marine mammals unless you, the city government, go and dump it into the sea.

So don't do that. If you can no longer put your trash on a barge to China, put it on a train instead and bury it somewhere in the enormous deserts that cover one third of the country.

I don't want to hear about how every single square inch of the desert is infinitely precious and irreplaceable, either. When the US needed to test nuclear weapons, they took a chunk of desert they didn't care about and nuked it. Just take another chunk, and put garbage in it! Maybe use the same chunk, it's been 70 years, it's probably fine now. Anyway, leave me alone.

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#43

Post by DoreenMichele »

jacobolus wrote: post #23
DoreenMichele wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you are familiar with Spoon Theory? Disabled people who are up in arms about straws typically argue that it's yet one more burden on them when they have too many as is. I'm not well versed on the straws issues. But let's talk about the California bag ban for a minute. I've lived without a car for over a decade. I also have a compromised immune system. Disposable plastic bags are cleaner than reusable shopping b…

I pretty much only make grocery trips on foot. At least for this pedestrian, both reusable canvas bags and disposable paper bags work just fine for bringing groceries home. I don’t think I’ve met anyone who decided to always drive to the market instead of walking because of the plastic bag ban. If I need to lug home more than I can carry in two hands, dragging a wagon works pretty well. I re-use paper grocery bags as…

I'm glad your life works for you. Truly.

But I'm extremely frustrated with the fact that no one seems to genuinely be interested in understanding anything I say on such topics. Even the best people here often come across as only asking so as to more effectively rebut my points, not to have their mind broadened or their understanding of the issues deepened.

For someone like me, that's basically life threatening. And the burden is always on me to prove something, to be diplomatic and respectful, etc.

I'm aware it's complicated by my story. I'm aware people find my story hard to believe.

But if you will excuse me, I think it's time for me to walk away from this thread.

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#44

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

snazz wrote: post #20
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There were a few decades where paper straws were the standard. That still doesn’t answer the question I raised in my post though. Where the standard paper straws wax paper?

The modern ones seem to be very lightly coated if at all. I do think that the reaction that they are impossible to drink from is more than a little silly, though. Maybe if you leave the straw in the drink for many hours it will collapse on you? I haven’t tried that.

> I do think that the reaction that they are impossible to drink from is more than a little silly, though.

Why is it silly? Untreated cellulose is extremely absorbent. Other paper utensils that will either hold liquid or be exposed to liquid are almost always treated with wax or plastic.

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#45

Post by yongjik »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #18
jacobolus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone has a serious medical reason to need a particular kind of straw, it seems like restaurants could carry a few to provide on request (any legal ban could figure out some exception for this case), or the person could carry their own straw around.

Maybe you are familiar with Spoon Theory? Disabled people who are up in arms about straws typically argue that it's yet one more burden on them when they have too many as is. I'm not well versed on the straws issues. But let's talk about the California bag ban for a minute. I've lived without a car for over a decade. I also have a compromised immune system. Disposable plastic bags are cleaner than reusable shopping b…

> The bag ban presumes you can just stick your stuff in your shopping cart, take it out to the trunk of your car and drive it home.

Well it might be regional difference, but I don't remember seeing anyone just "sticking their stuff in their shopping cart, take it out to the trunk, and driving home." Who likes to have their watermelons roll over their basil? Everybody who drives to the local Trader Joe's either bring their own bags or buy paper bags.

There might be an argument against plastic bag ban, but I don't buy this one.

Also, even if you buy just three dozen eggs (which might be one of the cheapest things you can fit in a shopping bag), the cost of a paper bag (10 cents?) is already something like a few percent of the whole purchase. Sure it might be a burden, but it doesn't seem like an excessive burden, especially since you can reuse a paper bag for months.

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#46

Post by stevenjohns »

mattigames wrote: post #32
umeshunni wrote: post #25

Maybe Berkeley should spend this energy in fixing its homelessness, crime and housing issues rather than pointless environmental virtue signaling.

Maybe you don't know but people around the world like to point to SF as examples of places that prohibited plastic bottles, maybe for locals the real issues are the ones you mention but in the big picture to stop using one-time plastics and similar pollutants are the real issues.

As an Australian, I have images of homelessness whenever SF is mentioned. I didn't even know that SF prohibited plastic bottles and I've never heard anyone say that.

I'd also take a position that homelessness is the real issue in SF and not disposable coffee cup usage.

EDIT: reading about the plastic bottle ban in SF[0], it appears that it's very limited

> The new regulations prohibit the sale of plastic bottles at events held on city-owned property. Additionally, government agencies may not purchase bottled water.

> Private businesses such as grocery stores and mini markets may continue to sell bottled water in the city. To date, little data exists on how the regulations have reduced overall plastic bottle use.

[0] https://theecologist.org/2019/apr/03/san-francisco-bans-sale...

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#47

Post by loeg »

umeshunni wrote: post #25

Maybe Berkeley should spend this energy in fixing its homelessness, crime and housing issues rather than pointless environmental virtue signaling.

Pricing in externalities by adding a fee for incurring a social cost is a great way to get the free market to address problems. And it doesn't take away from fixing any of the other issues you mentioned.

I'm no solid waste expert, so I cannot comment on the utility of reducing disposable coffee cup waste in particular (as opposed to simply raising the price to consumers of trash disposal).

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#48

Post by alexvaut »

What about returning refillable standard cups ? You return them dirty, starbucks/mac do wash them and everytime you want a coffee you get a clean one. It existed in France for glass bottles in the last century, it's still like that in Belgium for beers (and works very well). I don't see any problem to apply it for coffee. You can even think of little stickers of the brand from where you get your coffee, those stickers will be removed in the washing process. So if the big names can agree on few cup design/material and a washing process/logistic, they will have a very durable cup!

Re: Coffee Cups Are Next

#49

Post by misnome »

pmoriarty wrote: post #14
jacobolus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with paper (or biodegradable plastic) straws, besides costing an extra penny or whatever?

"McDonald's is being called on to stop its roll out of paper straws in the UK and Ireland, amid claims that they "dissolve" in drinks." "Petition creator Martin Reed started it a week ago, complaining the new paper straws dissolve as you drink them. "Many social media users agree, with some claiming paper straws are "horrible" while one says it is like "drinking a milkshake through an empty toilet roll tube"." https:…

I mean, it’s one anecdata point, but I like the new UK McDonald’s straws. Sure they taste different, but they last at least a couple of hours, and they are much stiffer - such that it’s easier to insert, stay where you put them and dont have a leaky bend in.
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