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The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

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Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#31

Post by pitaj »

debatem1 wrote: post #19
bdcravens wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sums up well Trump's ascension: there are a lot of people who have real needs and real opinions, and whose votes count as much as someone's in California or New York. An environment where we insist on leaving those voices unheard is what enables someone to have extreme influence.

I'm not sure where to go with this, honestly. From an electoral perspective it's counterfactual: my family in the midwest have roughly 1.5x the electoral power I do. Historically speaking this has led two democrats in my lifetime to win the popular vote but lose the presidential election. So I don't think there's an issue with those voices being unheard in elections-- quite the opposite in fact. On the other hand, I…

Does winning the popular vote mean anything under the current system? It's not hard to assume that many people would vote very differently if the electoral college wasn't involved. For instance, left-leaning people might vote more often in red states, and right-leaning voters in blue states would do the same.

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#32

Post by jimktrains2 »

pascalxus wrote: post #17

Shoes is one of those things I almost never need to buy, now that I'm an adult and fully grown. Even the very cheapest ones can last me 10 years or more without wearing out. Actually, it's the Nikes that wear out much faster, it seems. PS:(edit) I walk around a decent amount and even go running 6 to 9 miles per week. Even a super cheap pair of running shoes won't show any holes in it for 4+ years at least. The Nike o…

10 years? Do you not use them? I feel like I replace mine (which aren't bottom of the barrel) every 6 to 8 months because the soles wear out.

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#33

Post by Spooky23 »

The missing factor is that when shoe production was completely sourced to a few companies in China (70% of US market), nearly all shoes turned to shit. So Payless wasn’t really differentiated itself from any other value brand.

The end of Payless is just another private equity story, and poor kids will just get a smaller variety of shitty shoes from WalMart, TJMaxx, or Dollar General.

The majority of us get screwed in other ways, as we pay more for increasingly lousy footwear.

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#34

Post by stevenhuang »

Animats wrote: post #4
themodelplumber wrote: post #3

> we racked up hours roaming fluorescent lit aisles, inhaling the smell of off-gassing pleather. Funny. And if I had to bet on one term that could completely change the materials of which consumer products are made, possibly sparking a consumer materials revolution, "off-gassing" would be it. Once you learn about it, it's always there, nagging you to ventilate or throw out. In fact I'd say that along with terms like…

It's "out-gassing", as the plasticizers leach out of the vinyl. The "new car smell".

They mean the same. Aerospace commonly uses offgassing too: https://www.nasa.gov/centers/wstf/testing_and_analysis/mater...

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#35

Post by debatem1 »

richardhod wrote: post #18
icelancer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very well said. I grew up in a below-average income family and this is exactly the viewpoint much of my extended family has. Yet they're just considered dumb for voting against their own interests and told they don't know what's good for them. Leftists have an odd way of convincing the very people they're trying to help by making fun of them; it hasn't worked out too well in the last 20 years and I don't expect it wi…

Well to be fair, they are in long-term stakes, wrong since these companies do end up impoverishing them. It's the problem that nobody without a backup and savings can think strategically, which is the paradox and issue with a predatory capitalist system .

I want to agree with you, but I'm not sure I do.

It's very clear that Walmart drives down wages among suppliers. Workers clearly don't earn a ton of money. But do shoppers benefit? And are employees worse off relative to their alternatives? I would be surprised to find out that the first was the case, and curious-how-but-not-quite-surprised about the second.

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#36

Post by bch »

acranox wrote: post #21
pascalxus wrote: post #17

Shoes is one of those things I almost never need to buy, now that I'm an adult and fully grown. Even the very cheapest ones can last me 10 years or more without wearing out. Actually, it's the Nikes that wear out much faster, it seems. PS:(edit) I walk around a decent amount and even go running 6 to 9 miles per week. Even a super cheap pair of running shoes won't show any holes in it for 4+ years at least. The Nike o…

10 years?! Do you ever walk anywhere?

And/or sweat...?

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#37

Post by nathancahill »

jdavis703 wrote: post #27
pascalxus wrote: post #17

Shoes is one of those things I almost never need to buy, now that I'm an adult and fully grown. Even the very cheapest ones can last me 10 years or more without wearing out. Actually, it's the Nikes that wear out much faster, it seems. PS:(edit) I walk around a decent amount and even go running 6 to 9 miles per week. Even a super cheap pair of running shoes won't show any holes in it for 4+ years at least. The Nike o…

I'm guessing the OP doesn't use their shoes for much more than walking around indoors. On the other hand when I skateboarded to work I'd go through a pair of shoes about every 3 months (that's what happens when your brake is your shoe). It was still cheaper than gas and faster than public transit though.

I had a pair of Converse that I used for this purpose. Completely torn to shreds and full of holes. Had an Asian lady stay at our Airbnb and she saw them, said people would go crazy for that "distressed" look in Asia (forget the specific country) so I gave them to her for her to take back.

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#38

Post by debatem1 »

pitaj wrote: post #31
debatem1 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where to go with this, honestly. From an electoral perspective it's counterfactual: my family in the midwest have roughly 1.5x the electoral power I do. Historically speaking this has led two democrats in my lifetime to win the popular vote but lose the presidential election. So I don't think there's an issue with those voices being unheard in elections-- quite the opposite in fact. On the other hand, I…

Does winning the popular vote mean anything under the current system? It's not hard to assume that many people would vote very differently if the electoral college wasn't involved. For instance, left-leaning people might vote more often in red states, and right-leaning voters in blue states would do the same.

Only inside of individual districts-- eg, a senate race is a statewide popular contest. There are no federal popular vote contests in the US (although there is some momentum towards reform in that regard).

I'm not sure that the average voter really considers the electoral college today. Voter comprehension of it has historically been very low, at least. But you're right that many non-swing-state voters stay home after (correctly) figuring out that their votes are meaningless.

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#39

Post by pard68 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #33

The missing factor is that when shoe production was completely sourced to a few companies in China (70% of US market), nearly all shoes turned to shit. So Payless wasn’t really differentiated itself from any other value brand. The end of Payless is just another private equity story, and poor kids will just get a smaller variety of shitty shoes from WalMart, TJMaxx, or Dollar General. The majority of us get screwed in…

Never been to PayLess, is it any good, or rather was it?

Also, should mention TJMaxx has decent stuff. Never bought shoes there but I get pants, shirts, and random stuff for the house. My wife gets plenty of clothes there though.

Re: The Looming End of Payless ShoeSource

#40

Post by debatem1 »

debatem1 wrote: post #35
richardhod wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well to be fair, they are in long-term stakes, wrong since these companies do end up impoverishing them. It's the problem that nobody without a backup and savings can think strategically, which is the paradox and issue with a predatory capitalist system .

I want to agree with you, but I'm not sure I do. It's very clear that Walmart drives down wages among suppliers. Workers clearly don't earn a ton of money. But do shoppers benefit? And are employees worse off relative to their alternatives? I would be surprised to find out that the first was the case, and curious-how-but-not-quite-surprised about the second.

I dropped a negative there: I would be surprised to find out the first was not the case.
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