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Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

darlinghq.org

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Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#2
Something like this is sorely needed by the open-source, not-for-profit, shoestring-resources, cross-platform development community...

For example, let's say that I'm writing some cross-platform open source software. And let's say that I am developing this software on a Windows or Linux Box.

Now, let's say that for whatever reason, I don't have and can't afford a Mac (a scenario like this is more common than you would think, especially in developing countries...)

OK, so now how do I compile/run/test the Mac version of my software -- without having that Mac?

?

That's why your software is so important.

Anyway, if you can get this fully operational (GUI and everything), you'll solve that problem for that group of software developers...

If you're successful, if you prevail... Apple shouldn't sue you... they should help you, because additional software for their platform ultimately benefits their platform.

Also, judging by the source, you've done an amazing amount of work so far... I hope you can find the additional developers/contributors you need to take this thing to completion...

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#3

Something like this is sorely needed by the open-source, not-for-profit, shoestring-resources, cross-platform development community... For example, let's say that I'm writing some cross-platform open source software. And let's say that I am developing this software on a Windows or Linux Box. Now, let's say that for whatever reason, I don't have and can't afford a Mac (a scenario like this is more common than you woul…

> Now, let's say that for whatever reason, I don't have and can't afford a Mac.

Rely on some developer(s) spend 10,000 hours of their time for free developing a Mac emulation layer, or go on eBay and buy a $600 used Mac to test on...

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#5

Something like this is sorely needed by the open-source, not-for-profit, shoestring-resources, cross-platform development community... For example, let's say that I'm writing some cross-platform open source software. And let's say that I am developing this software on a Windows or Linux Box. Now, let's say that for whatever reason, I don't have and can't afford a Mac (a scenario like this is more common than you woul…

> For example, let's say that I'm writing some cross-platform open source software

> OK, so now how do I compile/run/test the Mac version of my software -- without having that Mac?

You don't. Darling is not a suitable replacement for testing on a real Mac in exactly the same way WINE is not a suitable replacement for testing Windows software. A developer who thinks so is misguided.

Virtualising macOS would be more suitable, although the only way to do so without violating macOS' licence conditions is to run the virtualised OS on a Mac anyway. Even then, virtualised macOS lacks hardware accelerated graphics support, limiting the testing of GUI apps at least.

> Apple shouldn't sue you

There's no reason they would. Nothing of Apple's seems to be infringed, as the system seems only capable of running anything that Apple's open source Darwin OS can.

Even if the Darling project reimplemented some of Apple's proprietary frameworks, this could be done based on Apple's open source releases of things such as Core Foundation, etc. The reimplementations of things like AppKit, when done in the future, could even possibly be based on something like GNUstep — which would give that project a well-needed shot in the arm, to say the least.

> additional software for their platform ultimately benefits their platform

Firstly, any well-written cross-platform software is easily ported to macOS. This is most evident with software intended for FreeBSD but is equally possible with software that originates on Linux; see Homebrew, MacPorts, etc. for the plethora of utilities that began life on Linux but have since become cross-platform, or software made by GNU that is typically cross-platform by design.

Secondly, Apple has been down the cross-platform road before, and none of its developers wanted a bar of it. Apps that are developed on other systems but not tested properly on macOS are always heavily criticised by macOS users as feeling foreign and un-Mac-like.

Back when Mac OS X was shiny and new, Apple offered three major platforms for developers: Cocoa, their C and Objective-C APIs inherited from NeXTSTEP; Carbon, their C and C++ APIs inherited from Classic Mac OS; and Java, a cross-platform offering to entice developers from other platforms, particularly Linux.

Apple deprecated their own Java in 2010 because (A) people really disliked using Java apps, even though Apple's implementation of the JVM was performant and had native support for Cocoa-style controls and (B) nobody was using it, with major preference going to Apple's own Cocoa and Carbon APIs.

Apple, and its userbase, prefer apps that are made with love and care _on_ Macs and _for_ Macs/iOS devices/Apple Watches/Apple TVs, respecting those platform conventions by being developed and tested on them.

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#6

Something like this is sorely needed by the open-source, not-for-profit, shoestring-resources, cross-platform development community... For example, let's say that I'm writing some cross-platform open source software. And let's say that I am developing this software on a Windows or Linux Box. Now, let's say that for whatever reason, I don't have and can't afford a Mac (a scenario like this is more common than you woul…

> Now, let's say that for whatever reason, I don't have and can't afford a Mac. Rely on some developer(s) spend 10,000 hours of their time for free developing a Mac emulation layer, or go on eBay and buy a $600 used Mac to test on...

[deleted]

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#7
post #4

Been experimenting using this to run legacy software and while it seems to work great with command line tools, as soon as you progress onto gui stuff you quickly run into missing functions and libs. Still insanely cool though.

Especially for MacOs, where you can expect apps to stop working after a new new major OS versions, this is really nice. Meanwhile, Microsoft maintains an amazing degree of compatibility. I haven't tried, but I have a feeling Office 97 works in Windows 10.

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#8

Something like this is sorely needed by the open-source, not-for-profit, shoestring-resources, cross-platform development community... For example, let's say that I'm writing some cross-platform open source software. And let's say that I am developing this software on a Windows or Linux Box. Now, let's say that for whatever reason, I don't have and can't afford a Mac (a scenario like this is more common than you woul…

> Now, let's say that for whatever reason, I don't have and can't afford a Mac. Rely on some developer(s) spend 10,000 hours of their time for free developing a Mac emulation layer, or go on eBay and buy a $600 used Mac to test on...

It may still be too expensive for devs in (very) developing countries or whatever, but I'm pretty sure there are (paid) remote desktop solutions for this. Also you can snag an old mac mini for well under $600, where I am. Like $200-300. It won't be good but that's probably better for testing anyway.

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#9
post #5

Something like this is sorely needed by the open-source, not-for-profit, shoestring-resources, cross-platform development community... For example, let's say that I'm writing some cross-platform open source software. And let's say that I am developing this software on a Windows or Linux Box. Now, let's say that for whatever reason, I don't have and can't afford a Mac (a scenario like this is more common than you woul…

> For example, let's say that I'm writing some cross-platform open source software > OK, so now how do I compile/run/test the Mac version of my software -- without having that Mac? You don't. Darling is not a suitable replacement for testing on a real Mac in exactly the same way WINE is not a suitable replacement for testing Windows software. A developer who thinks so is misguided. Virtualising macOS would be more su…

I stand corrected!

Re: Darling – macOS Translation Layer for Linux

#10

Something like this is sorely needed by the open-source, not-for-profit, shoestring-resources, cross-platform development community... For example, let's say that I'm writing some cross-platform open source software. And let's say that I am developing this software on a Windows or Linux Box. Now, let's say that for whatever reason, I don't have and can't afford a Mac (a scenario like this is more common than you woul…

> Now, let's say that for whatever reason, I don't have and can't afford a Mac. Rely on some developer(s) spend 10,000 hours of their time for free developing a Mac emulation layer, or go on eBay and buy a $600 used Mac to test on...

While your point is taken... I write and contribute to free/open source tools. I can afford a Mac, but will not buy one because there's zero incentive to me. While I'm not sure this project would help, if a free or very low cost proper emulation existed, I'd use it.
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